If you eat chulent.........

groisamomma

Fri, Aug 03 2012, 12:28 pm

freidasima wrote:

Groissemomma you are so off the mark that I'm not even going to answer again, you want to wear me down? You didn't but it's shabbos here so I'm off.

Just to finish off. Half of what you write here in your post is a distortion and a quarter is narishkeit. I'm not even going to deal with it anymore. You backtrack and then you change what you write and then you quote selectively. Welcome to the internet where anything goes! You just proved it!

Please, please go back and check. Then quote my words-which is how one backs up their arguments on the internet or otherwise--with proof.

freidasima wrote:

You even denied here that you wrote something which anyone with eyes can see that it appears in your first post - your reference to eggs and onions!

Really?? I don't recall. Please provide quotes.

freidasima wrote:

And as for your trying to re-write me or give your own explanations to what you think I meant - all wrong, all incorrect, all a fabrication of your imagination!

Good. So then please explain what you REALLY meant.

freidasima wrote:

And what an imagination you have...I wonder if that's how you got to all your explanations of this sefer and that sefer, half of which are figments of your own imagination. Do you have any idea at all what the oruch hashulchan is? That one doesn't pasken from it? It's background? And yet you quote it as if it is a definitely across the board accepted source. For chassidim! What a Joke! Do you know what chassidish rebbes thought of the oruch hashulchan??!!! Boy maybe you should go back to school and learn some more...

Boy, you are missing the point by a mile. I say it is a minhag yisroel and that is why it is done. You say it cannot be because nobody claims so. If certain poskim claim so, then how can you possibly claim that my ancestors certainly didn't think it's a minhag?

I don't recall paskening anything. Unlike other people, I don't consider myself a posek or even the last authority on any topic. Again, since it is certain that some people's ancestors considered it a minhag, you cannot claim that it is only "because someone sneezed before the Holocaust."

freidasima wrote:

What you write here is a combination of distortion and a misquote and I'm going to be DLKZ and say that you may be dislectic or whatever so that's why you are doing it, not because you are deliberately trying to misquote.

You need to back that up. Something you haven't done yet.

freidasima wrote:

Have a good shabbos whatever you eat, whatever you believe.

Good shabbos to you and yours!

freidasima

Sat, Aug 04 2012, 1:56 pm

Ruchel there are Satmar who don't consider themselves to be a chassidic group or in any way like the Ukranian, Polish, or Galician chassidim, nor do they consider the Satmar dynasty to be a chassidic dynasty or followers of any type of classical chassidut. That is not to say that R. Yoilish wasn't a "rov" - there are just those including in Satmar, who disagree with calling him a "rebbe" and certainly not a chassidic "rebbe". We have had several threads about that on Imamother where Satmar women corrected others who called Satmar a chassidut. Hence I was careful not to call them that specifically.

Unlike what Groissemomma tried to kind of insinuate a bit nastily that I was trying to say, my caveat about Satmar not being considered chassidic by all had nothing to do with learning but how certain members of the group itself view Satmar vis a vis other chassidic groups.

As I wrote more than once, there are definitely learned chassidim. Not only ignorant or half learned ones.

As for Sourkis, he was given his mother's appelation (Sara) and one of his descendents who my dh knew during their army service (this guy is far from being religious but is very proud of his ancestry) even wrote a whole book about R. Leib Sourkis not only from chassidic sources but from family letters going back three hundred years that they had and brought to EY at the beginning of the last century when his (this guy's) grandfather moved here as a child. Quite something!

celestial

Tue, Aug 14 2012, 1:42 am

Groisamomma -
From what I can understand from your posts, you "hold" by the Aruch haShulchan which says certain foods (in Yiddish?) are Minhag Yisrael and therefore, both holy AND binding.

I think the danger freidasima is discussing is real, however much anger you two have against each other right now. Unless someone holds this way (and I don't understand why we would if we do not pasken by this sefer???) then these foods aren't particularly holy for them. They may be holy by a certain segment of Jews who attach a certain meaning and kavannah to these foods, but by no means is that a mainstream opinion within Judaism. Let's invert the paradigm here - a Shabbos table with egg salad without onions isn't holding at a "lower level" - they are not granting the same importance to something very obscure.

Besides for which is the other danger: equating minhagim for recipes/what types of food to make on Shabbos with blowing the Shofar is an outright betrayal of history and the diversity of the Jewish people, not to mention confusion about what the word kedusha is and means. At the end of the day, people do have to have priorities and this is the danger of ignorance. It should be emphasized, not skimmed over, that these are minhagim and NOT kedusha. As freidasima said, a sefer torah is kedusha, not a pot of cholent. I think this is a really important point in this discussion.

In this week's parshah we learn about the Bal Tosef. Of course that doesn't mean we don't have our minhagim and the Oral Torah etc, but it does mean that unless we are EDUCATED about what is a geder, what is simply copying our ancestors, and what is a BINDING commandment on Hashem, we might end up like Chava, who touched the Eitz Hadaas and had her entire emunah put into question. Chos v'shalom.