Looking for info on these UK communities

amother

Fri, Nov 23 2012, 3:28 am

Ilford
Borehamwood
Bushey

What are these areas like in general? How expensive are properties in comparison to places like Golders Green and Hendon? What is available in terms of Kosher shops/ butchers? What is the transport into central London like?

We're also looking into Newcastle and Leeds. We know that the Jewish communities there are small. Are there particular areas of those cities where most of the Jews live (if so which ones?) What kind of kosher shops are available in those cities and also, what are the property prices like in the Jewish areas?

Would welcome any info anyone has! Of the places listed, have only ever been to Leeds (and not in the Jewish area.)

mummy-bh

Sat, Nov 24 2012, 10:07 pm

My parents live in Ilford and I grew up there.

House prices - I believe a fair bit cheaper than GG.
There is a bakery on Gants Hill, and another one and a butcher (under LBD) in Barkingside. The local supermarkets stock a small range of kosher foods. To be honest, my parents do most of their shopping in GG/Hendon.
Transportation into town is very good. It takes 30 minutes on the tube.

You can PM me or ask me here for any more information.

(BTW, the Leeds community is not as small as people imagine!)

Mrs Bissli

Sat, Nov 24 2012, 11:39 pm

I'm very familiar with Bushey and Borehamwood.

Bushey is actually quite expensive, most houses are detached 4bedroom plus. I don't think you'll save much in terms of housing unless you're moving from more expensive streets in GG. There is a kosher restaurant, but no local kosher butcher/bakery. No eruv. Community is very nice, mixed age group from families with children to more established families and retirees, the youth Rabbi (R Richards) and his wife are really nice. Commuting--most people I know drive (if not working in central London), or drive & ride (closest train station actually is Borehamwood).

Borehamwood is a much bigger community, popular with newly marrieds and families with young children because of less expensive housing stocks. Good supply of recently built flats and affordable semi-detached (though may need renovation/extension). Most tends to be 2-3bedrooms, though Elstree side has more substantial (read GBP800k-1million) houses. Has an eruv pretty much everyone uses plus a local mikva. 3 orthodox shuls all on Borehamwood side. All Rabbonim are wonderful and very welcoming community. 2 restaurant (meaty/milky), own bakery, a kosher butcher/grocery shop. Though many people shop in Edgware which is 15min away. Commuting--train link is pretty good, 15min to West Hampstead, about 30min to Farringdon/City Thameslink. Driving is a bit tough because feeder route to A1 gets congested after 7:45.

Agree with mummy-bh that Leeds is a good sized community, own bakery/butcher.

OP do you have children? If so you really need to think about the schooling options first. For Bushey/Borehamwood, there are local schools (HJPS, Immanuel started primary school) but HJPS gets pretty full with siblings, Immanuel is an independent school). Frummer parents send their children to Edgware. Pls feel free to PM me.

amother

Sun, Nov 25 2012, 1:40 am

Thank for the replies so far!

We're considering these areas mainly because they're cheaper than places like Golders Green and Hendon. It sounds as if Bushey isn't much cheaper so maybe that area is not for us. We'd probably be looking for something like a 3 bed semi with garden, preferably and older property, wouldn't mind something that needs renovation.

We just have one baby so far so won't have to worry about schools for a while but are interested in sending to non-Jewish public school.

What are the areas like in general? Are they mainly new houses or old like Golders Green?

Also, I haven't asked about Edgware because I assumed it is very expensive. Is it?

amother

Sun, Nov 25 2012, 2:20 am

Bushey is still significantly cheaper than any property in Golders Green. I know people who have moved, and looked there recently.

Also noteworthy is that it is a 5 minute (!) drive from Edgware. I used to do the trip often, and the amenities in Edgware are very good. Kosher wise, and being on the train line. There is also still a lot of parents that send to the non-jewish schools in the area, so your child would have jewish friends in those schools.

There is also lots going on for young families in the shul and children services are very busy.

Borehamwood is the BUZZ community people are moving to, and I imagine the house prices are creeping up to reflect that. But it is still cheaper. There most definately are MUCH cheaper properties, but not all the areas are great. It is probably best to speak to someone who lives there before looking to buy, so you know house prices in the good areas. (By good I dont mean affluent, I mean safe and some jewish neighbours).

Edgware is the most expensive of the areas you mentioned but is STILL cheaper than golders green and hendon. You have everything there and the jewish presence is significant. There is a shortage of 3 bedroom houses and the demand is great, so once youve found something you might like, a bidding war may knock you out financially. If you look in edgware the best thing to do is find more obscure agents so you have a better chance of securing something within your budget.

amother

Sun, Nov 25 2012, 2:48 am

Leeds has 2 jewish primary schools, one chabad (small) and one regular orthodox. (state funded I believe) They are opening a secondary school in the next year or so, until now anyone who wanted to go to a jewish school commuted to King David or other schools in manchester.

I think there is one kosher shop, maybe some sort of restaurant but I am not sure. Not sure about bakery. Manchester is 45 minutes-1 hour drive away and has several restaurants, bakeries, large kosher shops, judaica shops etc.

I have been told Leeds is a very friendly community, welcoming to newcomers. (this was from older people, so I don't know about young couples)

amother

Sun, Nov 25 2012, 8:21 am

Ilford definitely has cheaper housing than NW London.

In recent years, Ilford has been populated with a very large and growing community of Muslims and the amount of anti-Semitic incidents have greatly risen.

Shuls in the area include; Conventry Road located near downtown (heavy muslim population) Ilford with elderly community, Ilford United Synagogue otherwise known as Beehive Lane - once the biggest shul with a thriving community, today less so, Clayhall Shul located at Sinclaire House (Jewish Community Center) and Chabad of Ilford.

There are 2 Jewish schools; IJPS (Ilford Jewish Primary School) a State aided Jewish school that has a large amount of Muslim kids as well, as they are not allowed to refuse on basis of religion, and Clore Tikvah - a reform school that is reputed to be a very good school.

All the local non-Jewish schools have an extremely high percentage of Muslim students due to the area demographics and many of the Jewish children that study at those schools, suffer terribly as a result.

Many people in Ilford, particularly middle class and up, Jewish or not tend to send their children to private schools.

There is one kosher bakery in Ilford which also sell a few kosher items like Chalav Yisrael milk etc.

In Barkingside (located btwn Clayhall and Chigwell) there is a Kosher Butcher and bakery.

Another option you may be interested in is Chigwell or Buckhurst Hill. Chigwell has a nice United Synagogue community and many children commute to NW for school or alternatively I have heard that the local Chigwell Primary school has a good reputation as well as a higher percentage of Jewish students.

Buckhurst Hill is also an upcoming and growing community (not so religious) and has a very active Chabad Shul. Buckhurst Hill is approx a 10 minute drive from Chigwell.

As far as pricing is concerned, I'm not sure how much cheaper Chigwell and Buckhurst Hill are than GG/Hendon.

Good Luck!

amother

Tue, Nov 27 2012, 6:50 am

Thank you everyone who replied so far.

amother above, that's really useful information about Ilford, it sounds as if that area won't work for us. Such a shame to hear what's happening there.

I think we'd really fit in well in Leeds but I have some (non frum) family in the south of the UK and would prefer the London areas just so I could be closer to them. We're definitely not ruling it out though and if DH manages to secure a job there it could work out well. Which are the Jewish areas?

Borehamwood sounds promising. Which areas/ roads are the best for Jewish families and which ones should we avoid? What is available in terms of schools?

Does anyone have info on Newcastle-upon-Tyne? maybe I should start another thread about that as it is not immediately clear from this one that I'm asking about there.

Mrs Bissli

Tue, Nov 27 2012, 2:53 pm

Borehamwood schools: if you're ok with rather light MO/standard US (United Synagogue) schools, HJPS (Hertsmere Jewish Primary School) is the local choice. 2 form entry, co-ed, but often filled with younger siblings of existing pupils. Slightly frummer/more jewish education but still MO is Beth Shvidler in Edgware. It's co-ed, affiliated with Edgware Adass whose members children get priority admission. Also on the right wing MO/yeshivish is Menorah Foundation in Edgware toward Burnt Oak also co-ed (not to be confused with Menorah Primary in GG). All these schools are voluntary aided (ie state subsidised). If you want more yeshivish, Noam in Wembley is coed but separate class for limudei kodesh, it's independent (private). Though it's a bit far from Borehamwood (assume 30-40min commute in morning rush).

On light MO spectrum similar to HJPS is Mathilda Marks in Edgware, Wolfson hillell in Southgate, Sinai in Kenton (next to JFS, biggest primary, the only one I think with 3 forms). They are all voluntary aided as well. Wolfson Hillel and Sinai are a bit further (25min to WH, good 45min to Sinai) but likely to have carpool. There is a new school in Mill Hill called Etz Chaim, just nursery and reception years for now, so independent (ie private) for now. Immanuel (independent secondary school) just started the prep (ie primary) school. If you want separate gender schools, Torah Temima in Dollis Hill for the boys, Beis Yakov for girls in Colindale. Some families send to these schools from Borehamwood.

You can look up school inspection reports on OFSTED and Pikuach. OP how old are your children? children here starts nursery after the third birthday, reception after the fourth birthday. Admission deadline is in mid January, places allocated in April. You need to apply to the council you live for voluntary aided schools, most jewish schools require supplementary forms (usually getting rabbi's signature for service attendance). Feel free to PM me.

Mrs Bissli

Tue, Nov 27 2012, 6:00 pm

Belsize Park has a liberal synagogue. Otherwise I think most people would go to closeby South Hampstead shul. South Hampstead shul is a very thriving community popular with families with young children. Typical US (United synagogue) MO, but probably the only shul where the senior rabbi is affectionately called by his first name. It's near Hampstead, near good schools, more central than GG/Hendon, popular among expats (lots of N.Americans) so rather expensive. I believe they may be in the middle of eruv campaign, though not sure if local council (Camden) has granted permit (not that it's preventing young parents from pushing buggies...) There's a chabad miniyan on Fridays in Hampstead at private houses.

There's definitely a synagogue in High Barnet but I think I know probably a handful of couples, all with grown children. Not sure if there're many young people...