Any doctorates/ABD imamothers? need advice

amother

Wed, Jan 23 2013, 9:07 pm

I'm a teacher with a masters in reading, and I finished all my coursework towards my doctorate in educational administration in jewish ed. two years ago. That's also when I got married. I bh got pregnant right away and now my baby is a year old. I got very little done over the past two years toward my dissertation, and now I need to decide whether to continue and really push myself, among working, caring for baby, etc. Setting aside time to do this will be a big sacrifice in time for my family and money (for babysitting). I will also need to push myself majorly, since I really lost my motivation and my brain has lost several gray cells since the baby. I would like to hear from other mothers who are/were in my situation, and how they decided to either forge on, or just decide not to finish. TIA

ROFL

Wed, Jan 23 2013, 9:24 pm

My DH was in a Phd program when we got married ( over30 years ago) he tried to complete it but gave up somewhere along the time. It was disappointing to him and me , even more so when I had to repay his loans. If you can finish your degree. It will help in future career opportunities and you will be proud of completing your degree.

morah

Wed, Jan 23 2013, 9:35 pm

Push yourself to finish. As hard as it is with a baby, it will only get harder with two, three, etc.

amother

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 10:09 am

Op here. thanks, people, but I'd really like to hear first hand how people in a similar situation came to their decisions....anyone? I'm really struggling with this right now and it would help me to hear what others did and what factors they took into consideration to decide.

STMommy

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 10:53 am

OP I was in almost exactly your situation - Pm me so we could discuss, I don't want the whole discussion to be viewable to everyone.

shabri

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 12:13 pm

I could have written your exact post word for word 5 years ago. The only difference is that my masts is in something else and I moved countries the 8 days after I got married. Anyway, 6 years and 4 kids later I still didnt finish it. If I could do it again, I would have pushed myself when I had more time. Now I feel that there is no point particularly since it will have little value to me in my current country. DH actually would have supported me through finishing it but honestly between pregnancies, nursing, and child rearing not to mention my job I just never had the headspace to do it.

If you can, do it now. Seriously.

Fox

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 1:58 pm

I started my doctoral in Instructional Technology, finishing my coursework but never starting my dissertation. Having four kids in two calendar years certainly was part of it, but that was only a piece of the decision.

The availability of appropriate jobs in my (or any!) field for holders of doctoral degrees was really the tipping point for me. My parents were both doctorate-holding college professors, and I loved teaching, so the progression had seemed obvious to me. However, I began to notice that the jobs graduates from my program were getting were, ahem, less than inspiring:

* Three or more part-time instructorships (without benefits) strung together for a still-less-than-full-time salary.

* Full professorships at the College of Animal Husbandry in Northern Idaho and similar outposts.

* Decent or even good jobs doing technical documentation (which rarely required a doctorate).

* Returning to the same jobs they'd left, only with a bump in pay because of union-mandates at public schools and colleges.

This, to me, is the real question you have to ask yourself: Why am I getting a doctorate?

If the answer is, "to amuse myself and amaze my friends and family," then by all means complete it, regardless of other considerations. There are definitely times when I wish I had finished -- I hate feeling like a quitter, even when quitting was the right thing to do.

If the answer is, "to advance my career or become qualified to fill certain positions," then you need to take an unbiased look at what's available, what salaries are being paid, where the jobs are, and whether a doctorate will make difference give your unique circumstances.

I would start by looking at what graduates from your program are doing and whether a doctorate would be advantageous in the kinds of schools in which you would work (e.g., a doctorate in a community-based or MO school is likely to be more important than in a BY-type school). Also, would this degree "count" toward certification as an educational administrator in the public school system where you live? That would also be a significant advantage in terms of job prospects.

If I sound somewhat discouraging, I don't mean to. However, my observation has been that the majority of frum women who earn doctoral degrees find that the lifestyle and demands of higher education, while seemingly family friendly, really aren't, and that jobs near large Jewish communities are hard to find unless you've done groundbreaking research, etc. A doctorate in educational administration, though, offers more options than, say, a doctorate in the liberal arts or business, so some of the equations may be a bit different.

BTW, A misplaced doctorate is worse than no doctorate at all, because it looks like you had no real career -- you just kept going to school until they threw you out. I've known tons of people over the years who lost out on opportunities because their doctorates didn't "match" their career goals or their experience. I've also known people who found themselves "hiding" their doctorates because the degrees made them look ridiculously overqualified.

Whether or not you choose to finish your dissertation, don't discount the value of what you've done. I wouldn't be able to do my current job had I not completed the 60 hours of coursework -- yet a doctorate would have been tremendous overkill for my current job.

Now, a final piece of advice: you'll get a lot of advice to finish your doctorate to avoid regrets. I'm going to disagree with that. Life is full of regrets, and having regrets doesn't mean you made a mistake. Yes, I "regret" that I didn't finish my doctorate, but the time and sacrifice involved is too great to do this on a whim. Life is all about opportunity costs, and seeing what my mother sacrificed for a celebrated academic career was very sobering, especially after I became a mother.

So analyze why you want your doctorate, and unless it's for personal satisfaction only, research the kind of careers you'll be able to pursue with it. Talk to people who've finished your program as well as those who haven't, and see what they're doing professionally. You'll be able to put together a picture of your prospects and make an informed decision.

Hatzlacha!

amother

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 2:33 pm

Fox, that was very comprehensive, honest and useful advice-especially the part about regrets. Initially, I started the program when I was single, and I had no focused career goals. But I do see that a lot of graduates get jobs at the administrative level (principals, APs, curriculum coordinators, etc.) in MO day schools that pay well. I currently work at a MO day school as a reading specialist and I am paid well for my hours, but I will need to change jobs soon because we will be relocating. When I began the program I had no plans to become a principal, and even now I'm not even so sure I want that kind of demanding job with little kids at home. But...you never know. Maybe when my kids are grown I will want to, or maybe I'll need to work full time bec. we'll need the money somewhere down the line .... argh. I am going back and forth.

Fox

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 2:53 pm

amother wrote:

When I began the program I had no plans to become a principal, and even now I'm not even so sure I want that kind of demanding job with little kids at home. But...you never know. Maybe when my kids are grown I will want to, or maybe I'll need to work full time bec. we'll need the money somewhere down the line .... argh. I am going back and forth.

Here's the key issue, IMHO: getting the degree without getting related experience is probably not going to be very helpful in the long run. There's no way to finish the degree; put it in the freezer, and take it out in a decade or so.

If you're willing to work at an administrative job that fits in with your degree, etc., then it makes sense to finish. If not, then . . . not so much.

This is one of the biggest problems frum women have with academic careers in general: the period in life when you have to be most professionally active coincides precisely with when you're needed most at home.

If you really enjoy your work as a reading specialist, you might investigate ways to advance that career -- regardless of a doctorate. I don't know a lot about that field, but I suspect that developing new teaching materials or strategies might be a significant career booster . . . or perhaps getting experience teaching reading to students with a variety of learning disabilities.

In other words, piling on additional degrees isn't necessarily the only or best way to advance your career. Obviously, if you want to teach at the university level, a doctorate is mandatory. If you want to serve as head of school or a related job, it's definitely an advantage if not absolutely required. If those aren't your ambitions, though, there are other ways to boost your value in the marketplace.

amother

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 2:59 pm

op here--
I was single for a long time and I piled on lots of experience in a private practice, classroom taught on several grade levels, went to workshops, gave a few workshops, did some coaching etc. I know that I do not enjoy tutoring one on one in private practice (I find it boring, even though I know it is lucrative), but I do enjoy giving workshops, teacher training and coaching and I do like small groups remedial and enrichment. These skills are great, but I'm somewhat overqualified to be, say, a resource room teacher. So that kind of puts me neither here nor there, in a way. I could do coaching, but that is per diem paid and not dependable for a salary. I know I could possibly get an admin. job without the degree, but it would put me at an advantage.

Fox

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 6:15 pm

So based on what you're saying, it sounds like finishing the degree might be a good idea. It would definitely open up more opportunities for supervision and teacher training.

If you want to hedge your bets, you might investigate whether this program is considered "valid" for public school administration certification in your area. If not, you might consider switching to a program that is -- even if you have to do a little additional coursework.

If you choose to complete the degree, be sure to stay professionally active after you graduate. Even if your salaried job is, say, as a resource teacher, be sure to keep up your memberships in all the professional organizations; attend conferences; and be aggressive about writing papers, teaching workshops, and that kind of thing. Your doctorate will then "match" your experience better, thus making it more valuable if/when you want to transition into an administrative position.

dancingqueen

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 6:44 pm

OP, break down writing your dissertation into manageable pieces and see where you stand. If you feel like you can do it, it sounds like it would be worth it. I have a doctorate that I was sometimes lukewarm about while I was studying but now I am so glad I have it. Finishing a BIG project like this brings a real sense of happiness and accomplishment.

Yocheved84

Thu, Jan 24 2013, 8:26 pm

I want to reply, but am currently sleep deprived and need to get a chapter submitted by midnight. Please feel free to PM--or respond, so the "reply" will appear in my email inbox--and I'll contribute more to the discussion. I say DEFINITELY finish. You didn't work this hard, and come this far, to give up. It will always be that tinge of regret.

If you are at the writing stage, do you need a babysitter? Can you get someone to watch the kids when you need to meet with your committee? Can you drop the kids at playgroup so you can go to a library and write for a few hours/go to the lab/etc.?

Hang in there. You can do this!
*We can do this*

::Goes to brew another pot of coffee::

amother

Sat, Jan 26 2013, 8:05 pm

yocheved 84, I have a topic, gathered articles, etc. I have an outline, but I can't get started with writing lit review...every time I get back to it I forgot how I left off cuz I have zero continuity and I have a hard time working in shorts blocks of time. I also have a one bedroom apt. with nowhere to work! argh. My topic was interesting to me at the beginning, but now I'm considering choosing something else if I decide to continue, something that will keep me really interested and motivated....what do you think?

Yocheved84

Sat, Jan 26 2013, 9:50 pm

Has your committee approved your dissertation proposal? If so, then switching topics might not be so easy.
If I were you, think about what inspired you about that topic--what had you interested in the first place.

Also--you mentioned doing the lit review, stopping, not remembering where you left off, etc.

It sounds like you need a couple days--48 hours--alone with a printer. Is that possible? Sit down, download "Self-Control"--it's a program that will block Imamother, FB, etc." and just log onto your school's website and access JSTOR, Google Scholar, etc.

Download EVERY article that you think will be relevant. If you're a "tech" person (vs someone who likes to work on paper), then download to a PDF and, IMMEDIATELY UPON DOWNLOAD, highlight what you found to be pertinent. Then, you won't forget. you really do need two uninterrupted days to do this. non-stop. go for it. Get the # for a pizza delivery guy and do it. Can you get family or friends to watch the kids for 2 days?

Also: One big thing I learned this past weekend....USE GOOGLE DRIVE. I save everything to it--every article needed. This way, G-d forbid anything should happen to your hard-copy files or to your computer, you're saved. How did I figure this one out? After I posted on here, my hard-drive/computer died on me. Not a fun weekend.:/

CRMommy

Mon, Jan 28 2013, 8:20 am

I had the same question when my kids were babies & everyone told me to finish now because later will be harder. As I was completing my Master's, my kids would ask "Mommy, when will you be home?" that broke my heart & gave me extra incentive to finish. Now I can be a real mom for my kids AND be able to earn extra $$! Smile

.. On an extra note, I had to make sure my young ones were cared for by good caretakers for the right price, which included interviews, calling references, & observing the caretaking beforehand (since I don't have family to help w/ that). This being said, good luck & you won't regret it later!!

amother

Sun, Apr 14 2013, 11:07 am

OP here--update! I decided to finish! I tweaked my topic somewhat, and hired extra babysitting one day a week, and I finished my introduction of the lit. review...I'm on my way...I really just needed to fully commit myself and make sure my husband was 100% on board supporting me.
Thanks, all, for weighing in.

Amital

Sun, Apr 14 2013, 3:04 pm

I finished my PhD last year (and had my 4th child). I was in a neither here nor there place, too, and I didn't want all my work and loans to go to waste. So I sucked it up and did it. At that point, I think I also just did what my committee recommended for almost all changes. I was happy to be done, even though things were a little different than how I would have done them if I was given free rein. (I also had 40 some rewrites, most minor, many because of APA formatting fun. But still, it was hard to push through. Just put your head down and do it!)

Now that I have my PhD, I'm very happy I did it. I can work from home and once my kids are older, I have more opportunity if I want it. I am very glad I did it, and I think you will be, too.

JollyMommy

Sun, Apr 14 2013, 8:50 pm

I have an M. Ed and many credits past that. I personally think a Phd in Education (as opposed to other areas especially in the sciences) is a waste of time, money and energy you could be spending in either advancing your career by working hard or spending with your family. I know a couple people with Phds in Ed-- with and without exotic specialties and they do the exact same thing as those with Master's degrees.

After you've climbed in stature because of your Master's, experience, and especially reputation, you may want to do your doctorate just for chuckles. But, practically it is a waste of time.

Your baby is only young once. There are many reasons to work hard, but going to school for this degree is not worth it in my opinion.