yotzei venichnas | Imamother

Frenchfry

Thu, May 16 2013, 10:46 pm

My cleaning lady leaves about 1/2 hour after me one day a week. I try to get a yotzei venichnas to walk in during that time. At the very least I make some sort of comment leading her to believe that someone might walk in. Like, I'm leaving now but I think DH might be home any minute, so don't be startled when he comes in (even though I know he won't). Or I'll tell her that she shouldn't lock the door, cuz someones coming to pick something up.

I feel a bit weird about having my friend walk in on her all the time. She's gonna start thinking I don't trust her (which is I guess halachicly what she should be thinking, but still... What does everyone else do?

seeker

Thu, May 16 2013, 11:20 pm

I'm not sure you need to worry about a half hour. AYLOR but I was just learning about this and the original halacha regards a period of several hours.

Though for my personal comfort level, I"d probably rather go with what someone suggested above and just have her leave 30 minutes earlier that day.

Frenchfry

Thu, May 16 2013, 11:28 pm

When we made her schedule, I originally asked her to come and leave 1/2 hour earlier, but she goes to my neighbor afterwards, and she's not home until then, and I can't make her wait outside in the cold.

Mama bear, AFAIK, its only a problem if she knows you won't be back, if ur going to an appointment, she has no way of knowing when you'll walk in. In my case, she knows I leave for work every week at that time, and I never return till she's gone.

Frenchfry

Fri, May 17 2013, 8:36 am

Yes, I'm talking about the kashrus issue. I never heard that turning off the gas can help. Can't she technically turn it back on? Anyway, I have an electric stove.

I've arranged a yotzei venichnas for that time, I just don't want to offend her. She's bound to catch on if the someone comes to "get something" every week when she's alone.

calaflower

Fri, May 17 2013, 11:30 am

Oh boy..I can't believe I never heard/thought of this before... I leave my sitter with kids home all day, never realized I'd need someone to come in and check once in a while ....what do other ppl do, when the sitter KNOWS you're at work all day ?

Liba

Fri, May 17 2013, 11:35 am

I had a boss had a full time live in nanny, housekeeper who knew all of the rules. No one checked on her all day and boss was certain it was fine because the housekeeper both knew the rules and had her own cooking facilities in her living space. It turned out she was cooking mamash treif in boss's kitchen on a regular basis.

I never allow my non Jewish cleaning in my house if I am not there. I wouldn't eat in a restaurant without a mashgiach t'midi, why would I expect less supervision in my own house.

marina

Fri, May 17 2013, 1:15 pm

It seems like a really bad plan to keep in your employ people whom you can't trust.

It also seems weird to check on your cleaning lady to make sure she's not suddenly cooking shrimp in your cholent pot. Why would she?

seeker

Fri, May 17 2013, 1:45 pm

marina wrote:

It seems like a really bad plan to keep in your employ people whom you can't trust.

Doesn't seem so far out to me. Why WOULD you "trust" anyone implicitly? An employee is not, say, your mother. You aim for someone who seems decent and then supervise them to be on the safe side. I never heard of this "trust" expectation, every business has certain checks and balances in place as far as I know. Trust means not breathing down their back casting suspicious looks every second, but it doesn't mean that you need to just believe everything is always kosher (pun not intended) without checking up on it.

marina wrote:

It also seems weird to check on your cleaning lady to make sure she's not suddenly cooking shrimp in your cholent pot. Why would she?

Why wouldn't she? Maybe not your cholent pot, but why not your microwave? It's so convenient, and you'd never know. What, she should eat her lunch cold while you have all these appliances just sitting there? It's not like it would damage them in any observable way.

Bottom line: There are halachos about these things. If you stick to the letter of the law equally in all situations, then nobody needs to consider it a personal offense, simply a matter of policy.

calaflower

Fri, May 17 2013, 1:49 pm

I trust my sitter, obviously, I trust her with my children!!!! however, I do see a possibility where she might inadvertently "treif up my kitchen /utensils" out of lack of knowledge, forgetfulness,... She is NEVER asked to make food for my kids, NEVER told to turn on the flame, (she only turns it on to make tea for herself) Am I supposed to "assume" she will do something wrong? What do people who work outside the home do?

greenfire

Fri, May 17 2013, 2:08 pm

marina wrote:

was wondering why I found my cholent pot dirty after a long milky yom tov ... marina was that you cooking shrimp again Question

Mama Bear

Fri, May 17 2013, 2:14 pm

I wouldnt leave food cooking on the flame and leave for an extended time, with a cleaning lady in the house. but then again, Ive seen what she brings with her when she comes; her pocketbook with her money and a change of clothes. there's no food there for her to throw into my pots.

Frenchfry

Fri, May 17 2013, 7:04 pm

No, I have no reason to think that she'd treif my kitchen, I'm talking what I believe (never looked it up) is halacha, not instinct. My husband always told me that in order to consider my kitchen kosher, the cleaning lady would have to assume that I or someone else can walk in at any time. So if I ever go shopping or something, I just say "be back soon"

I know many people who arrange a yotzei venichnas if the cleaning help knows they won't be back.

freidasima

Sat, May 18 2013, 2:25 pm

Listen ladies, I'm as modern and liberal as you can get and yet, when I think about it I agree with the machmirim here fully.

I know a story about a very very frum man who had a business partner who was like a brother to him and he left his two kids with the partner and his wife for a night when he and his wife had to go out of the country overnight and there was no one else (this was in europe) and when he got back his partner ADMITTED that he had fed the two little kids treif to see what would happen because he had been told that Jews become non jews if they eat treif. Yeah, a good catholic he was...and an idiot. Both to do it and to ADMIT that he had done it.

From that I learn, do not trust anyone when it comes to these things. And yes I know the man and the children involved.

mamaleh

Sun, May 19 2013, 6:33 pm

I believe one of the concerns is 'Basar shenisalem min haayin'. Meat that is left with a non- Jew (or non-religious Jew) without a recognizable siman is considered not kosher afterwards. As far as I was told this includes frozen meat as well as raw or cooked. AYLOR as to what is considered 'left' and what is considered a 'siman'