what I want to post on onlysimchas, but won't

ceo

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 12:36 am

When I was in college, I dated this guy for a while, I guess about 2 months. I liked him, but thought he was kind of manipulative, plus he was more serious than I wanted to be at that time, so I broke it off. I He continued to express interest in me, and I kind of gave in-- I did like him. We were in touch on and off for a few months, he was more interested than I was. After about 6 months, I broke it off for real. He got engaged afew months later. I also got married a while later, and nigmar. I used to run into his wife sometimes at the store, a very pleasant young woman. I never let on that I had any connection to her husband.

Anyway, after about 5 years of marriage, his wife left him. He was emotionally abusive (no surprise there, as I found him manipulative). As I mentioned, I was somewhat friendly with his wife--- she is NOT the type to leave her DH because he didn't buy her jewlery or something. She is a very emotionally stable person. Anyway, he with-held a get from her Exploding anger

for a while because he was interested in reconciling-- She was not. Eventually, she got a get (they have 2 kids, she has custody, he has visitation rights).

Anyway-- I just saw on onlysimchas that he's engaged!!! I hope that he has gone through a serious therapy process.....I am so curious as to who would marry someone so mean, who withheld a get from his wife!

I really want to post something like, "Mazel tov! hope you give her a get sooner than your last wife." But of course I won't . But really, I hope that the new kallah knows about his past.

sigh, it's just a sad story... I just feel bad for his ex-wife. I hope she finds someone soon.....

TzenaRena

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 1:38 am

Quote:

Anyway, he with-held a get from her for a while because he was interested in reconciling-- She was not. Eventually, she got a get (they have 2 kids, she has custody, he has visitation rights).

Two questions:

Why was trying to effect a reconciliation wrong? Isn't that what ideally would be best, if it can work? Why is that called "witholding a get"? Okay, eventually, either they get back together or they don't, and then going on to the next step, a get is given. Witholding means indefinitely, even after both sides know it's over, but just to put the other through misery.

You say it was for a while, how long was that?

A get can be a process that takes a while. Each side wants to make sure that future dealings should be fair to them. issues of custody, support , whatever. When the side that demands the get has unfair terms, it can take a while for the other side to do what it has to to insure that he/she doesn't get a raw deal. That's hardly called witholding.

Maybe something like applying for a mortgage. Till all the paperwork and approvals are in place, it's usually a few months.

I know someone who gave a get immediately, and I feel so bad that he did. He lost all leverage over his ex-wife, who destroyed his reputation, and put him through years of blackmail and suffering AFTER the get. Crying

If he hadn't been so shell-shocked and reacted so quickly to agree to the get, before putting some of his terms, demands in place, I doubt she could have done that.

Raisin

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 5:59 am

Quote:

He lost all leverage over his ex-wife,

ok, so you mean after the get they were on an equal footing, wheras before he held the upper hand. So, he was a nice guy, she was nasty. Nothing new. Him blackmailing her by witholding a get would not have improved the situation.

Ceo didn't say how long this guy withheld a get for. 1 year or so should be enough time to sort out any issues. Much more than that is a problem.

TzenaRena

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 8:34 am

Raisin wrote:

Quote:

He lost all leverage over his ex-wife,

For being a nice guy, he fell into the worst trap possible. "im ikesh tispatol". When you're dealing with a snake, you have to be a little scheming too, it's too bad he didn't consult with anyone, so he wouldn't walk into her neatly laid trap.

No, it wasn't an equal footing, because by giving in to her so quickly he showed her that she could walk all over him. and she did, being without a consciense.

HindaRochel

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 9:40 am

Quote:

Why was trying to effect a reconciliation wrong? Isn't that what ideally would be best, if it can work? Why is that called "witholding a get"?

Because she didn't want to reconcile. We have no idea how many chances she had already given him, but we must respect her decision that all chances were forfeited. Besides, we don't know her conversation with her Rabbi, what they said to her, what she said to him. Abusive men don't want to lose control and often become more dangerous during times of divorce.

Quote:

He lost all leverage over his ex-wife

,

Do you mean he lost all his ability to protect his interest? As Rasin said, no one should be using the get as leverage.

Quote:

who destroyed his reputation, and put him through years of blackmail and suffering AFTER the get.

That is awful if true. There are halachic remedies and legal remedies if she were actually doing what you said she was doing, though they can be costly, emotionally and financially and a rumor is hard to recall. But that has nothing to do with giving her a get. Kol haKovod to him for giving her a get immediately. But how would waiting have solved anything? She would only have more amunition to have used against him (I'm a Agunah, he won't give me a get.)

Of course a person should take some time to think about the various issues (custody, how much time does X spead with the children, how much time do I spend with them? Whose been the more hands on parent? How much money will s/he need to live and care for the children? etc. etc.) this has nothing to do with withholding a get.

BrachaVHatzlocha

Tue, Jan 09 2007, 9:01 pm

I also know someone who gave a get right away and now is going through who knows what just to see his son..... He was told AFTERWARD that he shouldn't have rushed to give the get.....
These men are not making their wives agunos, rather waiting until details are settled.
My mother told me that she read an article recently about how people always take the agunas side, assuming she's on the right, but it's not always true.

Motek

Thu, Jan 11 2007, 2:17 pm

TzenaRena wrote:

Why was trying to effect a reconciliation wrong? Isn't that what ideally would be best, if it can work? Why is that called "witholding a get"? Okay, eventually, either they get back together or they don't, and then going on to the next step, a get is given. Witholding means indefinitely, even after both sides know it's over, but just to put the other through misery.

you're right!

amother

Thu, Jan 11 2007, 11:07 pm

Motek wrote:

TzenaRena wrote:

you're right!

What about when a husband walks out on the wife, and tells the rabonim he is not ready to give a GET simply because he doesnt see himself getting married for the next few years?