ami article about poverty in israel

chanchy123

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 12:45 pm

Happy Mom wrote:

Chaiz, I made aliyah less than two years ago so I do know what life in the US is like financially. I'm the last person to romanticize the financial challenges that Americans are facing. We lived on one mid/low income and were nonetheless much more financially comfortable in the US than here. And no, we didn't take entitlements in the US (unless you consider health insurance for children in that category) and we didn't come here with a hand out to anyone - we were returning citizens, got no sal klita, paid our own airfare, etc. We came because we wanted to be here and believed it was the best place to raise our family and even with everything never doubted that we made the right decision.

I'm sorry you feel I was spouting untrue statements that I know to be false. I've lived in the US for a long time and now in Israel for a couple of years (and also lived here for the first 8 years of my marriage) so I do think I have a perspective that is of some value.

When referencing health insurance I was referring to medical assistance for children since it seemed most of the posts were referring to medical expenses with children; my kids did have health insurance through the state so I am very familiar with coverage. I unfortunately have a tremendous amount of experience here with medical issues and can unequivocably state that the state coverage in the US covered much more than here. I'm comparing apples and apples, government health care to government health care.

My kupa has told me that psychologists aren't covered here; perhaps if we had the higher level of coverage there would be a a discounted rate but this is what I was told. (If that's not accurate I'd appreciate having that information since it would be good to know - I'm on Klalit.) I know with certainty that psychological services for children are fully covered with medical assistance.

As someone who has pursued alternative health treatments for many years, I haven't found the system here more receptive than the US. I pay privately for all of our alternative doctors. I'm very open to feedback as to how to find health care providers in Israel who are familiar or even respectful of an alternative health care approach (my experience so far has been that they are very much the exception), and would love for you to share your positive experiences with me once you get here.

So let me restate the point of my previous post is a way that hopefully won't offend anyone: of the medical expenses (including medications) for our children that we had here, every single one would have been fully covered in the US. I wouldn't have had to travel more than thirty minutes at the very most to any of the specialists I would have needed. Early intervention services would have come to my home several times a week. The hospital would have been a five minute drive from our home. There would have been WIC to cover specialty formula and food stamps when our income dropped drastically. There would have been chesed organizations to help out people in our situation. And I don't think that the difficulties we were going through would have become a financial crisis in addition to everything else. That's all.

People struggle here, people struggle there. I don't think we have to have a competition about that or deny anyone else's experience. Just because there's not the same kind of network in Israel that there is in the US doesn't mean that someone won't struggle terribly if they don't have enough money. They will. But the struggle is at a different level.

Why aren't you on the heigst level of coverage? The price is not that much higher and you get so much more. In Macabi for instance, Magen Zahav - we get to go to any private doctor and have to pay only a 20% copay. We get to choose sergeons and hospitals, we get various alternative treatments, participation in glasses for kids, more therapies, and to an older age, etc. etcl. I think it is basic hishtadlut to be on the higher program, and the pay is not much greater.
Also I don't know if people mentioned this, but most people I know have a low cost private medical insurance as well, sometimes covered by work like in the US, but not always.

Happy Mom

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 12:59 pm

(Chanchy, is it possible to edit your post so that you aren't quoting my entire post? I was editing it while you were writing to clarify what I wrote and would appreciate it the quote would better reflect my intent.)

I think this is going off topic but don't mind responding - I don't have the higher level of insurance since when I spoke the representative about it, she couldn't tell me one specific advantage - she just kept repeating that it was 'k'dai'. I wanted to know that the price I was paying monthly would be a savings for me, in that it would actually lower the cost of the services that I needed. She wasn't able to tell me that. Based on the specifics of our situation, so far there's nothing we needed that would have been cheaper with the higher level of coverage. That's not to say that it wouldn't be beneficial in the future and I plan to see if there's someone else at the kupa who might be able to give us more detailed and helpful information.

As far as alternative treatments, it's been more worthwhile to pay out of pocket. We did investigate the level of coverage on this and found we could get better, more personalized service without paying more money by paying the care provider directly.

Happy Mom

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 1:15 pm

Liba wrote:

Happy Mom, have you spoken to anyone at your kupat cholim? There is a cap on what you should be paying for formula of about 550nis a month. You may have to submit receipts and wait to get the money back. We needed to submit a doctor's letter of necessity and a nutritionist consult about quantities of formula per month, but all in all, you should be getting some of it back.

My son has been on 3,000nis a month formula on two kupat cholim. On Meuchedet I had to submit receipts and get the money back each quarter. On Leumit I used to have to do the same, but now they actually programmed the computer so after a certain point each month I just don't pay anything when I pick up his formula.

Liba, I have spoken to them and they said that this particular formula has no cap and no money back. I'm really wondering if the people at the front desk know what they are talking about after reading a couple of the suggestions. Thank you for mentioning this, I'm going to speak to them about it again. (And hearing about your expenses makes me feel very grateful that we don't have this kind of expense!)

amother

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 10:28 pm

Happy Mom wrote:

Amother with disabled dh here. My experience is the same. The maccabi rep when I asked what advantage I would get with kessef or zahav told me none.

chanchy123

Sat, Jul 20 2013, 10:49 pm

Happy Mom wrote:

Liba wrote:

Glasses alone (private ophthalmologist and the actual glasses) are worth more than what I pay monthly for all family members together. Not to mention benefits for expectant mothers, benefits for hitpatchut hayeled, choosing your surgeons, any private specialist you need to see. Etc.