Xmas and learning?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 5:56 am

I just came across this excellent, extremely well written article on the subject. It is very respectful to all sects of Judaism, gives historical context, and answers a lot of questions that have been brought up here.

http://hirhurim.blogspot.co.il......html

Long story short: If it's your minhag, keep it. If not, don't worry, you're fine. Very Happy

busydev

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 11:25 am

I never heard of it till sem when a european girl tried to get our principal to cancel classes that night. (didnt work)
afaik the reason for the minhag was to keep the men from going out to learn since xmas night was a common night for pograms or other attacks on jews. so instead of going into the streets to get to shul to learn you stayed home in (hopeful) safety.

DrMom

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 2:18 pm

sequoia wrote:

Again: Easter. Much more dangerous in terms of pogroms. Why does no one refrain from learning then? Because it doesn't have a set date?

Because if men stayed home from learning on Easter, their wives would make them help with the Pesach cleaning.

doctorima

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 2:32 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Very interesting, thanks for sharing! Who knew that Yosef HaTaddik kept nittel in Mitzrayim! Smile

yogabird

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 3:31 pm

sequoia wrote:

Again: Easter. Much more dangerous in terms of pogroms. Why does no one refrain from learning then? Because it doesn't have a set date?

A man does not need to leave his house in order to learn. I'm sure many a man learned in his very own home by candle light every night.

This seems to support the theory that the original source for nittel is not connected to pogroms and other physical dangers; rather, it is sourced in the esoteric and mystical realm.

amother

Wed, Dec 25 2013, 7:49 pm

our minhag (chabad) comes from the rebbe rashab. you shouldnt learn torah on nittel nacht (xmas eve) for the reason that "one should not elicit an increase in life force." but the restriction applies only until midnight. (sefer haminhagim)

DrMom

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 3:55 am

I asked my rav about this. He said that according to the Chazon Ish, this custom does not apply to places where there is no reason to fear xtians.

It's so nice when halacha and common sense coincide.

Peanut2

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 4:15 am

My family is friends with an older woman who is no longer frum.

She was born in Europe before the war and is the granddaughter of a Chassidic rebbe and is closely related to a few Chassidic rebbes. Well know, but it probably would not be appreciated if I wrote who. (Though I believe she is in touch with many of her relatives.)

She once said that x-mas Eve was when it was allowed to play cards. She spoke about it a little and I didn't pay much attention because I didn't know this would be a big deal on imamother. It was very clear from what she said that they did it in a sort of passive aggressive way to put down, pay back, the Christians. A sort of "we'll show them, except we cannot show them in any way, so we will do this not mechubad acceptable thing and play cards and not learn Torah because we spit on this day."

I know this woman well and trust she got it right. She's spot on with the attitudes, I find, and likes to share.

(And there may be women on imamother related to her. I wonder if they'd recognize her from the description, or know her well enough to do so.)

DrMom

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 5:14 am

Peanut2,
I would think that if you wanted to "stick it to" anyone who tried to kill Jews the best thing is to study Torah and keep our religion alive (and go to the mikvah to create more Jews).

Ruchel

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 7:11 am

There are mainly 4 shittot.

1) Nittel wasn't around in their country. Plain ignore.

2) Davka learn more to counter klippot.

2) Don't learn at all, to not give "him" zechus

3) Do as normal, but no group/outside learning, most likely to stay vigilant

invisiblecircus

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 7:43 am

Peanut2 wrote:

to put down, pay back, the Christians.

What for? What have the Christians of today done to us?

Peanut2 wrote:

we spit on this day."

If I was taught attitudes like this in the name of Judaism, I wouldn't be frum either.

Peanut2

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 2:04 pm

invisiblecircus wrote:

Peanut2 wrote:

to put down, pay back, the Christians.

What for? What have the Christians of today done to us?

Peanut2 wrote:

we spit on this day."

If I was taught attitudes like this in the name of Judaism, I wouldn't be frum either.

Who is talking about now?

Peanut2

Thu, Dec 26 2013, 3:16 pm

invisiblecircus wrote:

Peanut2 wrote:

Who is talking about now?

People are still refraining from learning at this time of year.

Yes, and the reasons that people once did that no longer exist. IMO this whole thing is no longer applicable now. Our attitude to non-Jews is different when we are fortunate enough to live in a time and place where non-Jews are not trying to kill us. They'd rather woo us and marry us, if anything.

However, at that time, I can understand those feelings.

And DrMom, since learning Torah is a good thing, I understand the feeling that we won't do what is good today. Playing cards was a no-no then, too.

Like I said, the yeshivas here were all open for business that night. People were learning Torah.