At what point would you consider the tuition crisis solved?

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:17 pm

I think each area needs to figure out an attainable salary for families and base it off that. Then pick a tuition cost - no matter how many children you have, you pay $X amount. When you have 1 child in school, you will be funding more. When you have 5 in school, others are covering you.

In the NYC area, I would say $125,000 is an attainable salary for a double income family or one spouse with a higer paying job and a SAHM. Lets say $25,000/family tuition.

Of course, this would need to balance out with the budget in schools.

greenfire

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:25 pm

bamamama wrote:

But how many here would want their taxes going to fund madrassas in the Muslim community or Roman Catholic schools? Or Baptist schools where they learn to convert the Jews? I think there would have to be big oversight for this. Govt money = a govt finger in the pot. No more separate but equal. FTR, this bothers me not a bit but I can see how it would bother some.

while we're fantasizing ... my tax monies would go to the schools I send my kids to - so there would be a list or something similar where private schools of choice could be checked off

amother

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:27 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

If someone makes $125,000 then they are not eligible for gov programs. They pay taxes, health insurance... before they even get a paycheck. We make a bit over $100,000, but at the end of the day the take home pay is $60,000. We still need to pay for food, mortgage, utilities, car insurance.... and tuition. We dont have any money for extras. On an income of $125,000 I can see myself paying $25,000 for tuition while living in new york.

When we got married we took part of our maser money and saved it to help offset the tuition expense. It did help us in the beginning.

We are paying for 3 tuitions, and they are based on our income. The yeshivas are confident based on our lifestyle that we are paying what we can.

amother

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:30 pm

OP here.

Thank you everyone for your input! Lots of good points were made.

My solution involves a central pool, as many pointed out - that's the only way to have a sustainable solution. It also involves schools willingly buying in, which may be a problem from some hashkafos (to be supporting, at least indirectly, chinuch you consider subpar). Broad support from Rabbonim would be necessary.

The steps of my proposed system, in short: Internal vouchers, and a 5% plan.

1) CREATE A CENTRAL VAAD & FUNDS POOL: This will be used to provide support for the below steps, and fund the internal voucher system. The Vaad will need to have broad oversight from all segments of the community. The pool will need initial funding; for although it will have ongoing income, much of it will take time.

Ongoing fundraising will be necessary as well, of course.

2) STREAMLINE & COMBINE: Work with schools to cut unnecessary expenses, get the lowest price for supplies, furniture, etc. Use a central vaad to get group rates for teacher benefits (health etc), and supplies; share accountants, try to find schools with complementary needs to share part-time staff where appropriate (gym and art teachers, for example). Ideally try to get donors to lend money to remove mortgage burden if rates are too high. Use a grant writer to apply for multiple schools, make sure schools are eligible for government funds wherever possible.

This makes schools a better fundraising target, because donors know their money will not be wasted. (One $15+ million school I know of reported saving $1 million annually because they had their budget professionally audited.)

(Note that this step alone would only lower tuition costs by $250-$1000 or so. It should make actual costs of educating students into about $6,000 - $10,000 annually, depending on the school.)

3) RESTORE FUNDRAISING: Work with schools to ensure that they are fundraising a significant percentage of their fixed budget. If they need professional assistance, or a grant for a first-year salary for a hired fundraiser, provide it.

(This would probably not lower tuition costs significantly, at least at the outset, but can certainly help create endowment funds over time.)

4) THE 5% PLAN - MODIFIED: Ask all community members to contribute 5% annually (half of their maaser) to the central pool. Get as many Rabbonim as possible to endorse this. (It should NOT be policed. At most, people can sign a paper with their consent, but nobody should be actively enforcing compliance.)

This will be the main income stream for the pool, after the initial outlay.

5) INTERNAL VOUCHER SYSTEM: This central pool will provide a voucher to parents for a fixed amount. The question in the original post helps define that amount Smile

If we are trying to get tuitions down to $5,000, the voucher can be for $3,000 (which will reach target tuition for most schools). For schools to accept these vouchers, they will need to have been part of the system, and cooperated with above steps.

So the voucher system would need to be for $3,000 - $5,000 (a specific amount will need to be set; although perhaps it could begin on the low end and increase with time). The central pool will fund this, with a large amount of seed money (perhaps some as loans), and the constant trickle of maaser income.

6) CENTRALIZED SCHOLARSHIP APPLICATIONS: Administer distribution of scholarships in a fair way, without the invasion of privacy in the current setup. This could perhaps be done again in the form of a loan, paid back by parents giving their full maaser to the pool.

7) SALARY SYSTEM: Once tuition costs are more stable, the large problem of underpaid mechanchim, and the small problem of some overpaid administrators can perhaps be approached. A fair pay scale can be defined, and schools (who should no longer feel as pressed for funds) can work towards compliance. Benefits can be provided across the board, and a reciprocity system for additional tuition discounts across schools can be discussed. (If you're a parent of girls, and work at a boys' school, you can still get a teacher discount.)

Ensure that teachers with training and excellence in teaching are paid accordingly!

-------

Note that for example:

A family with 3 children, a school with $9,000 tuition for 12 years, a $100,000 annual salary, and 40 years of work:
- Before this system: Paid $324,000 in tuition, probably no donations after this time. ($9000 x 3 children x 12 years)
Assuming actual cost of education was lowered to $8,000, vouchers for $3,000 were provided:
- After system: Paid $180,000 in tuition, and $200,000 in maaser. ($5,000 x 3 children x 12 years, + $200,000 (5% of $100K x 40 years) for a total of $380,000.
This family ended up contributing to the pool, mostly painlessly (they had to give maaser anyhow, AND got a tax deduction for it).

A family with 8 children, a school with $7,000 tuition for 12 years, $60K annual salary, 50 years of work (he didn't earn enough to retire early ;-):
- Before system: Paid $672,000 in tuition (probably paid far less of this to begin with, and paid even less in later years as debt mounted)
- After system (assuming $3,000 vouchers, cost of education reduced to $6,000): $288,000 in tuition (there's an actual possibility that much of this was actually paid, as the max tuition cost per year for this family was $24K), and $150K of maaser for a total of $438,000
This family ended up taking from the pool, though not nearly as much as they were taking with the current system.

To go drastic:
Family with 12 children, $6,000 tuition for 12 years, $40K salary, 50 years of work:
Was supposed to pay $864K, probably paid next to nothing.
After system, was supposed to pay $432K, and $100K maaser.
They took from the pool, but probably paid as much as they did pre-system. (I.e. they didn't become a GREATER burden.)

Of course these equations did not figure in increased high school costs, emergencies, salary fluctuations, loss of jobs, etc. Over a broad enough pool, these probably even out somewhat.

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

If you make $125,000 and pay home around $75,000 and pay $25,000 in tuition that leaves you $50,000. That's really a plausible budget.

amother

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:37 pm

OP here: Decided to x-post solution post to a new thread, as the discussions on this one are important!

saw50st8

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:38 pm

amother wrote:

4) THE 5% PLAN - MODIFIED: Ask all community members to contribute 5% annually (half of their maaser) to the central pool. Get as many Rabbonim as possible to endorse this. (It should NOT be policed. At most, people can sign a paper with their consent, but nobody should be actively enforcing compliance.)

This will be the main income stream for the pool, after the initial outlay.

Something similar was attempted in my community and was an epic failure. It had plenty of support from Rabbonim. Unfortunately, people who weren't using the school system currently did not want to or couldn't contribute enough. People with kids in school couldn't afford to donate and people with kids who would be going into school were saving their money for their own kids.

mummiedearest

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 12:49 pm

op, who would make up this "central vaad" and who would they be answerable to? and why would people want to give half their maser to this? there are people who need food and rent and medical help, they should get what they need, and that's what many people use maser for if they're not using it towards their own tuition. also, this kind of setup allows yeshivas to disrespect parents even more. once they know the money's coming in, they don't need any specific parent as a client. they won't want to deal with any non-average kid at all. they don't have to learn to manage money better. and how does sharing art and gym teachers save money? it doesn't. each teacher needs to be paid per period. you can't tell someone to schlep to three schools but take a pay cut. that's ridiculous.

if the parents can pay back the difference in maser, why do they need to do this for a separate organization? the schools should be willing to work with their own parents on this, as long as the schools can afford to.

southernbubby

Tue, Dec 31 2013, 7:28 pm

It is hard to imagine the government getting involved. The public schools in some cities are poorly funded and there is plenty of griping that private schools are exacerbating the segregation issue. If the government can't afford to overhaul failing public schools, where would they get the money for private schools? From their perspective, sending all the Jewish kids in Brooklyn to public schools would bring the level of the schools up so why would they pay to keep the Jewish kids out of those schools?

m in Israel

Wed, Jan 01 2014, 1:50 am

southernbubby wrote:

Actually, public schools spend significantly MORE per student than private schools. In NYC in the last reported year (2011), they spent over $19,000 per student, and national averages are about $11,000 per student. It's hard to call that "poorly funded" -- most private schools actually spend a lot less than that per student. Remember public schools, like most government agencies, waste a ton of money supporting large and ineffective bureaucracies. And if all the Jewish kids in Brooklyn were to decide to attend public school there would be a huge infrastructure crisis as well (not enough physical classrooms/ buildings), which would cost even more money to fix.

But it is still not very likely that the government would fund any sort of private school education. Between the separation of church and state concerns, and the powerful teacher's unions, it is just not worth it politically, even in areas with strong private school populations.

Ruchel

Wed, Jan 01 2014, 9:03 am

Remove lunch and many kids will pop up with a bamba bag. Seen it with my own eyes.