My son is not a circus seal!!!

amother

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 5:18 pm

My son is 2.5 and is very bright but also painfully shy. He does not like to show off or "perform" for others. If its just me and dh or his grandparents, he will. Before Shabbos, he sang alef bet to my father, and he was so proud. Then, at the Shabbos table, there were a lot of people, and he asked him to do it, and he wouldn't. My father got very upset and tried to coax and cajole, and then asked me and dh to punish him when he ran away to hide. Later, he said how could a child of mine be so shy when I am such a performer (true- I was always the lead in the school musical, am in a profession that requires a lot of public speaking, give shiurim to the women in my shul). Well, he has a father too, you know, who is very quiet and reserved.

Anyway, we are going to be there for Pesach, and my father says I need to prep him because he MUST say the may nishtana. I expect ds will learn the words, but with 25+ people going to be there, I am fairly sure he's not going to do it! And he shouldn't be made to if it's not his thing. How do I get my father to stop treating my son like a circus seal?

Rutabaga

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 5:33 pm

My MIL says children and husbands don't perform for company. It's so true!

You can practice all you want with DS, but that often goes right out the window if he's not comfortable. It will only get worse if your father puts pressure on him.

Stand up for your son. Remind your father that he's just a little boy and he's not your clone. And if you think it will work, have DH and DS perform a duet.

acemom

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 5:40 pm

Of course he is not a circus seal!!! If Zeidy wants to hear his grandchild say the Ma Nishtana or whatever he can hear it without all the others around. At 2.5 he shouldn't have to be punished for not cooperating in a crowd.

Teach him whatever you like and let his grandfather hear it before YT even. Everyone should be happy that way.

Shyness is a Jewish virtue....

Emotional

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 5:41 pm

Forcing a shy kid to perform can traumatize him for life. He can develop problems like selective mutism, social anxiety, etc. It's unfair to force anyone, child or adult, into a spotlight that they are neither ready for nor comfortable with. And it is likewise unfair to demand of a 2 and a half year old to be a certain way just because his mother is.

Success10

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 5:43 pm

Don't give your son a nap that day. He'll be out cold come seder time. I don't know if you can ever really get your father to understand your son. Your father seems like a good person who doesn't really understand how children work. It would be best to avoid confrontations like these, always putting your children first when push comes to shove.

bamamama

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 6:30 pm

Yes, OP, your father is way off base and is not being respectful of your son. You have to set the boundary as he is too little to do it himself. "No, dad, ds won't sing mah nishtana. We don't believe in forcing a child to perform against his wishes."

I can't believe he wanted you to punish him for running away. My ds2.5 is sitting on my lap right now and I would be Exploding anger

if someone put him in a similar situation.

vintagebknyc

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 6:34 pm

bamamama wrote:

if someone put him in a similar situation.

and that would be me, at three, with my evil uncle (the youngest till I came along) trying to teach me the words 15 minutes before the seder. and don't think I've forgotten it, some 45 years later.

imasinger

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 6:51 pm

I suggest working both ends.

Let your DS learn mah nishtana. Praise him for any success. Encourage him to do things in front of others in less overwhelming circumstances than Zaidy's shabbos table of strangers. In other words, don't overreact protectively, as you may end up letting hm think that he is supposed to be afraid of performing.

That's one half.

The other half is enlisting Bubby, DH, and anyone else, as well as being firm yourself that you will not let Zaidy pressure your DS. Remind him that pushing too hard now may actually make him less likely to volunteer later in life, and 2.5 is really little. Ask him to tell you who would do it if DS is not up to the task. Maybe ask your DH to say he (DH) has been practicing! You have enough time between now and Pesaxh to get the concept across that your DS's confidence is the most important part of his chinuch right now. (Meantime, keep reviewing it with DS, as a fun game).

Then, on seder night, INVITE DS to do all or part, with you and DH there to support and help.

He may surprise you and be happy to do some or all. And if he doesn't want to, move right along to the next candidate with no worries. Tell DS that whenever he is ready to do it at the seder, he will be welcome.

greenfire

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 7:00 pm

punishing a 2-1/2 year old is ridiculous - not to mention even moreso for not performing for his grandfather ...

even if teaching your son mah nishtana is something you plan to do - it has nothing to do with such an unreasonable demand

I would tell your father that he can count your family out from the seder as you will not succumb your child to such torture

flowerpower

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 7:01 pm

Can your son tell dad the mah nishtana before the seder when noone is there and its still calm? Most kids don't perform in public. It took dh a good few years to learn that when we ( used to) go to his parents for shabbos or yom tov someone would get sick and all the kids suddenly got tongue tied. Even the loudest one.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jan 08 2014, 8:44 pm

Even the most outgoing kids usually hate being put on the spot like that! I've always hated people who push kids to perform. Even if you're totally outgoing yourself, you still have to respect anyone of any age who is feeling uncomfortable.

I'd have your husband say "Moishe, would you like to sing with me?" That sounds like the tatty will be doing all the work, and little Moishe can join in the fun. (or not, that's OK too!)

P.S. You are an awesome mama for recognizing your son's feelings and honoring them. He's lucky to have you. Very Happy

mother48

Thu, Jan 09 2014, 3:53 pm

You don't push him. period.
One of my girls was painfully shy as a child. Still is, but better. When someone asks her her name, she won't answer. looks to me. It's embarrassing, but that is My issue, not hers. At home she won't shut up.

When she was little she wouldn't talk to inlaws. We would prep her on saying good shabbos etc, but once it came to it, she just couldn't do it. She would talk at their table, but not officially.

G-d bless my inlaws.... they tried to talk to her about it, bribe her-and I just told my dh, they are making it an issue and making it worse. She had no prob spking to my parents because they were just nonchalant.

Fast forward 5 yrs, she talks to everyone, started using the phone one fine day and won't stop...

Sorry for my ramble, but point is don't force.
Ma Nishtana is always scary at the seder. I'm sure you son will be happy to sing it (all day...) to his zaydie and zaydie will just have to suffice with that nachas.