unfriendly to other frum women

Blossom

Wed, May 02 2007, 2:37 am

Quote:

All of the women in shpitzels and such stared at me like I was from some other planet-- a frum woman in a shaitel and my husband in kippah and tzitzis out!!

Batya-D, You should've maybe have worn your tichel too Tongue Out

HindaRochel

Wed, May 02 2007, 2:57 am

Maybe next time go with a group of friends and if they stare at you you stare back! Then go up to them, wish them a good Shabbat, make some comment about the weather or life in general, and if they continue to stare and don't answer, ask them (if you know) in Yiddish or Hebrew if they speak English. If they still continue to behave absurdly, rebuke the gently, by reminding them that "We should love our neighbor as ourselves...

But I would go with a small (don't want to be intimidating) group of friends.

btw, I find that if I project confidence, chances are others don't stare or treat me poorly even if I am clearly "the other".

amother

Thu, May 24 2007, 3:34 am

just like in all sects, I think some chassidim are very nice and some are not as. from my experience though (I live in a mixed neighborhood) my child has often offered chassidish kids some of his snacks and I always doublecheck with the mother and the mothers never had a problem letting their kids eat from my kid's snack. and when my son doesn't have a snack and their kids do, they always offer some to my son so in general I think they are just as nice or nicer than the rest of us!

amother

Fri, May 25 2007, 12:33 am

It's just sad how people here love to talk on Chassidishe women and especially on Williamsburg people. Leave them alone. First look at your Ahavas Yisroel and then go judging others.
They stare maybe but that's not Loshon Horah.
Whatever you women are talking about them here, that's Loshon Horah.

greenfire

Fri, May 25 2007, 12:46 am

amother wrote:

why shouldn't we feel bad if people stare at us ... there is something wrong with that ... and when you sit in shul and these little chassidishe kids stare at you ... who is teaching them not to stare ... that is the problem ... they need to be taught by their mothers - oh but they do the same thing ... so where is the derech eretz

amother

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:04 am

Staring is a societal thing. Is it against the torah to stare? Its not assur to stare. Lehavdil, its like telling a little kid not to ask his mommy "why does that person sit in a wheelchair?".
Of course little chassidish kids will stare at you- you're different looking!
People here, themselves, posted how they wonder what on earth a chassidish guy was doing getting a manicure. And wondering why chassidish women were shopping in downtown manhattan.
Everyone stares at someone who is different. Especially if you see them out of their traditional setting. You stare at chassidim. They stare at you.
Get over it. The world keeps on going round. They're not hurting you. And they're not even asking you "Why don't you dress like us." They're just noticing you're different. Little kids notice things. (So do adults, they just tend to be a bit more discreet.) Deal with it.

HindaRochel

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:09 am

amother,

Children and adults do sometimes stare. That doesn't make it right or moral. Staring at someone embarrasses them which is against Torah law. Little children should be taught that staring isn't polite. I don't think anyone expects childrent o master that skill (not staring) when so many adults fail, but the parents should intervene; with a smile. "Yossi, it isn't nice to stare. Say hello to the nice lady. " Then a smile and introduce herself. That's all.

This isn't about a double take, it is about being rude.

amother

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:12 am

And I'm saying- whats intrinsically wrong with staring? Only that society deemed it rude. Same with pointing. There is nothing immoral or intrinsically rude about pointing or staring.
People have to learn to not get offended by everything. Especially if its a little kid. And especially if they'd do the same. (Which I'm 1000% sure they would.)

greenfire

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:17 am

amother wrote:

#1 I don't stare at anybody ... and #2 they could very well be hurting somebody ... I know of a specific instance where the staring up and down of a chasidishe person actually hurt somebody ... you do not know where someone is coming from or where they've been so ... and it's the adults too - obvious in general it is noticed ... not everyone has the gall and the chutzpa ...

HindaRochel

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:17 am

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with picking your nose in public but it is considered uncouth. Bad manners is a set of socially imposed criteron for proper behavior; Torah comes in because violating them makes one appear as uncouth, which demaens the Torah, or because they cause, as in the case of staring and pointing, embarassment to another, which is against the Torah.

amother

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:30 am

HindaRochel wrote:

And is burping in public rude? In certain societies its actually considered rude NOT to burp at the end of a meal.

All I'm saying is people aren't perfect. Be happy they're just staring and not making nasty comments. And I highly doubt, greeny, if you saw a be-shpitzeled lady walking down your block with her husband in his vassen zokken, lange rekkel, and streimel, that you wouldn't stare. Maybe just you'd stare for a little less time, but I would be you 100 bux that you would stare. Staring is a natural thing to do. Eventually parents teach their kids not to be so obvious about the staring.

And really, people have to toughen up their hides a bit. Its a harsh world out there, and unfortunately, not everyone is gonna coddle you like your mommy did. The only way to manage in a tough world like this is to thicken your hide and try not to take offense to every "rude" thing people do.

greenfire

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:41 am

amother wrote:

. And I highly doubt, greeny, if you saw a be-shpitzeled lady walking down your block with her husband in his vassen zokken, lange rekkel, and streimel, that you wouldn't stare. Maybe just you'd stare for a little less time, but I would be you 100 bux that you would stare. Staring is a natural thing to do. Eventually parents teach their kids not to be so obvious about the staring.

And really, people have to toughen up their hides a bit. Its a harsh world out there, and unfortunately, not everyone is gonna coddle you like your mommy did. The only way to manage in a tough world like this is to thicken your hide and try not to take offense to every "rude" thing people do.

where do you think I'm from ... you owe me 100 bux ... I see em plenty and do not stare ... the problem is that if it is noticed that mostly chassidishe people do this ... it should be stopped it is a shanda ...

and toughen up ... you have no idea what is inside the emotional make-up of a person and how that rudeness effects their mental health ... hey me personally would have a thing or 2 to say ... but not everybody is that bold ... and btw - those nasty kids were in my shul not I in theirs

mimivan

Fri, May 25 2007, 1:48 am

bashinda wrote:

I've definitely gotten people give me the "who are you, interloper?" look. That's sad that instead of asking you the mother just assumed it's treyf. For all she knew it was from a Jewish brand and the food fine. Life is weird.

I'm sorry people feel hurt when chassidishe mothers are cautious about their kids begging from strangers, but look, we have to be careful! Maybe the woman should not have said it was trief, but she was trying to teach her son a lesson about begging food from people. I don't like it when my son begs food from people, kosher or not, becuase I think its a busha and he should learn not to do it. Not to mention that I live in a non-religious neighborhood, and we don't eat all the heckshers even religious people eat. I try to be careful to thank the person and say we eat only b'datz, but if that fact offends them, sorry, my kids chinuch and kashrut comes first.

Last edited by mimivan on Fri, May 25 2007, 1:51 am; edited 1 time in total

HindaRochel

Fri, May 25 2007, 2:26 am

mimivan wrote:

But the way you are doing it is totally different then the way the other mother approached the situation. Your statements are respectful of the other family. The woman who reacted by saying "treif" was not.

bashinda

Fri, May 25 2007, 9:05 am

mimivan wrote:

bashinda wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding me. Of course women should be careful about food their children are accepting but there are ways of doing it. I think I would have taken it out of my child's mouth asked where s/he got it and turn to the person and ask if I could see the wrapper. I would have tried to make a lesson in kashrus out of it for my child.

mimivan

Sat, May 26 2007, 7:45 pm

Ideally, yes, but it might have been just if not more embarrassing for the mother who gave to go through all that then question and answer...
Maybe it is diff. in Israel, because my chassidic group here is very strict about kashrus and we eat like only 3 hecksherim. I have had to be pretty thick skinned, because I have had to turn down food from people who I feel are more "charedi" than I am.... people do get very defensive, no matter how nice one is sometimes. So while I apologize, smile, and thank, I try not to make a big production out of it, because in the end, that is the least embarrasing course of action for everyone... (I could make it into an exercize with the child later, but without that 3rd party who would be embarrassed

over my judging the hecksher she uses)