R' Jonathan Rietti says some "Mekubalim" are Charlatans

imasoftov

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 6:16 pm

amother wrote:

Rav Yaakov Hillel, a reputable rabbi well versed in kabbalah, wrote an entire book for the public to gain awareness of mekubalim who are charlatans or using koach hatumah.

I forgot the name of the book, but I read it a while ago and it explained what the limitations of kabbalah are today as well as equipping the reader with warning signs to look out for....

What are the warning signs for koach hatumah?

Maya

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 6:20 pm

amother wrote:

Theres someone who lives in Brooklyn who has lots of followers who come to him for advice. How would anyone know if Gdolim associate with this Mekubal? Rabbi Rietti said he knows of one charlatan posing as a Mekubal, who used to be a salesman. This Mekubal used to be a salesman.

Here's the rule of thumb for knowing which ones to go to: they're all fakers.

Don't waste your time and money on any of this, and save your efforts for something more useful.

amother

Bisque

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 6:39 pm

imasoftov wrote:

What are the warning signs for koach hatumah?

It's been a few years since I read it, so I don't remember all that much, but basically, practical kabbalah is mostly forbidden today. So the first warning sign is anyone who does 'miracles' using kabbalah or the like.

(Basically, if it sounds too good to be true - it isn't using kosher sources. He explained it though - the different levels and realms of kabbalah, what's allowed and what's not, in detail.)

I did do a google search and the book name is Faith and Folly: The Occult in Torah Perspective (Tamim Tehiyah).

From an article discussing it:

“If a person uses Practical Kabbalah…the evil that adheres to the good will cling to him. His soul which he had hoped to purify, will be sullied with evil (Faith and Folly page 45).

There's also an article called Rav Yaakov Hillel Outs the Charlatans by cross currents: www.cross-currents.com/archive.....tans/

amother

Bisque

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 6:48 pm

Maya wrote:

Here's the rule of thumb for knowing which ones to go to: they're all fakers.

Don't waste your time and money on any of this, and save your efforts for something more useful.

I wouldn't say all, just because every rule has exceptions, but yes, this pretty much appears to be the rule.

Like the Miracle Cure sales letters preying on desperately ailing people, and the Get Rich Quick marketing schemes which exploited desperately poor people... There's always slick people waiting to masterfully cash in on others suffering.

I think that especially if you've been raised in a culture where you're constantly hearing stories about saviors - in the frum word, for example, the Rebbes saving the Yid in the dungeon or w the parnassah problem, Eliyahu Hanavi coming to the rescue, etc... And you're in a desperate, vulnerable position to begin with... You can really fall for this or try to believe/hope in it, even if you're a smart person otherwise.

amother

Bisque

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 6:51 pm

I'm quoting the Cross Currents article because it brought up some good points that were mentioned here:

Rav Yaakov Hillel, one of the acknowledged masters of Kabbalah, spent a few hours on Tuesday with the collected rabbinate of Los Angeles. Accepted in Israel in the widest circles – including Lithuanian yeshiva circles typically far removed from the (often) Sephardic redoubts of Kabbalistic interest – he is an intriguing mixture of elements not usually seen together. Born in India, he speaks English effortlessly. He runs not one, but several yeshivos of note. He demonstrates full grasp of, and appreciation for, the world of chassidus. His shiurim on Kabbalah are attended by many of the stellar names in Torah excellence. He carries himself with the demeanor of classic Sephardic warmth, gentleness, humility, and understatement – but he lets you know that he will brook no nonsense. He is famous in America for his “Faith and Folly,” an examination of the misapplication of Kabbalah, in all its manifestations. We expected him to be devastatingly critical of the phonies. We were not disappointed.

He was blunt and unsparing regarding the plethora of Kabbalah wannabes, the people who come to communities reading mezuzahs, or palms, or kesuvos. Lamentably, too many people who should know better, including Torah figures, flock to these charlatans for advice. Besides amounting to nothing more than hokum, he views them as fully flouting halacha, which forbids predicting the future. They accomplish what they do in some cases through accomplices who gather information, and in other cases through a combination of intuition and the careful study of chicanery. Even when this is not true, we should not be swayed by their success in knowing things that others don’t. He cited Derech Hashem of the Ramchal, that Hashem sometimes grants supernatural powers to people who have failed to get where they should – not as a reward, but as a punishment. These powers are not holy, but the opposite.

Why are people so eager to suspend their critical thinking and flock to the quacks? Too many have succumbed to the need for instant gratification typical of the rest of the world. Some people want instant coffee; frum Jews often want instant yeshua (solution of their problems), especially if it does not demand real change on their part. A person suffers a heart attack, and is triumphantly shown that one of his mezuzahs had a hole in the word levavecha – your heart. He concludes that the mezuzah is the problem, instead of realizing that the hole in the mezuzah is the effect, not the cause. The cause of the problem is the spriritual defect in this heart, which is then externalized as the defect in the mezuzah.

The charlatans, he said, can’t be real, because they never spent quality time learning Torah. How could they? At eighteen, they became Baba this or Baba that. (He knows of one who ran a brisk business stealing tefillin in his yeshiva days.) The real mekubalim were different. Baba Sali was the head of a beis din till he was seventy. He wrote important works on Choshen Mishpat. After a full life of Torah excellence, he moved on to giving berachos at the age of ninety. The best way to deal with those who come into town and ask to set up shop is to ask them to stop at the local kollel first and give a shiur. It almost always scares them away, because they are incapable.

Fooling people has become a brisk business, through the manipulation of PR machinery. People pay to have their photos printed alongside recognized greats, in order to increase their prestige among the populace. One unworthy candidate paid $250,000 to be the keynote speaker at the dinner of a major Torah institution, just to bolster his image.

Rav Hillel recounted how his own children proved the gullibility of their neighbors. They persuaded the janitor of their school to accompany them through the street, walking slowly and hunched over, with a white sheet wrapped around him. People – including many who should have known better – rushed over to kiss the hand of the obvious “holy man.”

Some would counter that the Kabbalah merchants may not be talmidei chachamim, but they are “hidden tzadikim.” When a friend of his took this position, Rav Hillel advised him to pull his children out of their yeshivos and Bais Yaakovs. Why bother with the learning? Let them stew in their mediocrity, and Hashem will reward them special powers He gives to the otherwise unaccomplished “hidden tzadik,” who remains hidden by carrying himself like a pathetic failure. This is a terrible error. Hashem does not give such hidden powers to a person whose external appearance and conduct is substandard. The hidden tzadik carries himself with dignity, but whose full worth is not appreciated by others.

Where can we find legitimate Kabbalah personalities? The first rule is to avoid those who get any kind of personal gain from their knowledge. He spoke of someone he knew who would never accept a dime, never a favor for his learning or his beracha. Someone whom this giant had touched positively tried to repay him by performing a favor without his knowledge. When he learned of it, he was so disturbed that he did not speak to his benefactor for decades.

When pushed for the identities of such people, he would not offer a single name. If you want a beracha, go to the most accomplished in Torah – Rav Chaim Kanievsky, Rav Elyashiv. People of their caliber are capable of miracles, but no one of lesser stature.

He struck me as having the best of two worlds: the embrace of serious study of Kabbalah that was part of the Baghdad from which came his great-grandfather, and the focus on the “meat and potatoes” of traditional Ashkenazi learning that he picked up in Gateshead and Ponovezh. He would, however, take issue with such a description, claiming that it misses the point entirely. The legitimate master of Kabbalah has no other option but to be a serious talmid chacham, the result of decades of study of Gemara and Rishonim. There is no other way. Separating the two orbits is artificial.

He didn’t enjoy pointing out all that has gone wrong. There was pain in his voice. Having seen Torah and Torah greats in their full glory, both in nigleh and nistar (the revealed and hidden parts of Torah), he is driven to rescue them from those who would infantilize or trivialize them.

It must be lonely at the top, but – to make use of the cliché – boy, what a view! We were enriched and uplifted to hear him share it.

Jeanette

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 7:19 pm

amother wrote:

All I know is that I have been saying the same thing...
My mother was sick with non hotchkins limphoma in the hospital when she took a turn for the worst.
Her sister - my aunt brought in a 'mikubal' to give her a 'beracha'. She didn't ask my father or us children for pemision first either. The 'mikubal' comes in to the room and asked us all to leave the room . my mother still had enough of her sences to get historical about this. No one knew this very young 'mikubal'. My aunt saw a sign on the door of the room he was staying in saying that her was a 'mikubal' and asked him to come.
Anyway we didn't fully go out of the room .we stayed to the side. The 'mikubal' gaVe my mother some wrapped object to put in to her tichel and told her that there will be three hard days and then she will hav e peace . Well his words came true. After three hard days she passed away....
I always said it was because of this 'mikubal' that the passed on.....

I am very sorry for the loss of your mother. However, I don't believe the mekubal had anything to do with her death.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 11:36 am

Someone mentioned here a mekubal in Brooklyn. Is this person reputable? I'd really like to know if anyone has any information on mekubalim in Brooklyn.
TIA

Maya

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 1:44 pm

amother wrote:

Someone mentioned here a mekubal in Brooklyn. Is this person reputable? I'd really like to know if anyone has any information on mekubalim in Brooklyn.
TIA

There are no reputable mekubalim.

watergirl

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 2:04 pm

Maya wrote:

There are no reputable mekubalim.

And if there are, I am fairly certain that they dont live in Brooklyn.

watergirl

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 2:07 pm

amother wrote:

Someone mentioned here a mekubal in Brooklyn. Is this person reputable? I'd really like to know if anyone has any information on mekubalim in Brooklyn.
TIA

This is the post that you are referring to:

amother wrote:

Did you read the post, or even the rest of this thread? Look carefully at the part that I made bold. This whole thread is about how the people are almost all (if not ALL in this day and age) fakers. And the real ones are few and far between. I dont think you will find an answer here.

Iymnok

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 2:19 pm

Rav Yaakov Hillel did not want to be "a mekubal". The Litvish gedolim asked him to be the spokesman for nistar.
If you come to Jerusalem, go to him if you can, he is very approachable and normal.

PinkFridge

Wed, Jul 06 2016, 3:44 pm

amother wrote:

Someone mentioned here a mekubal in Brooklyn. Is this person reputable? I'd really like to know if anyone has any information on mekubalim in Brooklyn.
TIA

I wish you hatzlacha. You are obviously dealing with a difficult situation and have tried many things that don't seem to be working. Please remember though, the pasuk (Tehillim 27) says, "Kavei el Hashem, chazak v'yaametz libec v'kavei el Hashem." Daven to hashem, regroup, and daven to Hashem some more.

If you are doing the appropriate things, like teshuva, tefilla, tzedaka, just keep doing them!
Hug