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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Manners & Etiquette
amother
Babypink
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Sun, Jul 15 2018, 10:08 pm
shiaeisen wrote: | I find the same in boro park. If you don’t look or dress exactly as they do, they stare. |
יהושע אייזן?
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 8:35 am
I had the same thing happen to me in Beitar Ilit. Women and girls of all ages would stop and stare, quite unashamed. It was really disturbing, and it made me feel unwelcome.
Why is this accepted behavior?
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DrMom
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 8:53 am
Give 'em a big buggy-eyed stare right back.
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iyar
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 8:55 am
FranticFrummie wrote: | I had the same thing happen to me in Beitar Ilit. Women and girls of all ages would stop and stare, quite unashamed. It was really disturbing, and it made me feel unwelcome.
Why is this accepted behavior? |
FranticFrummie, you're asking a good question that needs to be asked.
It's definitely a cultural things. In some communities basic courtesies that are accepted and taught to little children are absent and even mature (?) adults seem to lack an awareness of their existence. When the subject is raised those people become defensive. Anyone asking, as you do, or suggesting that their behavior is lacking is accused of being intolerant or racist.
If I had a clueless sister or friend who didn't know how to use cutlery or launder her clothing I'd take her aside and try to explain things gently. As this is a problem of large groups of people and not an individual, maybe we're doing a good thing bringing it up in a public forum.
We all daven that our actions and those of our children be pleasing to Hashem and to society at large. There might be women who actually didn't know how uncomfortable it makes others feel when they stare. For the most part these are people known for acts of chessed and their behavior isn't coming from any inherent desire to hurt others. Putting it out there as the amothers upthread have done might raise awareness among them and help them teach their children how to behave in a manner that others find welcoming and kind.
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WhatFor
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:28 am
amother wrote: | The social norms in that community dictate that staring is not rude. So they have no reason not to do it. No, it's not common sense- it's a socially dictated behavior.
Personally, I understand why it makes you uncomfortable. But they don't. |
I agree with you that cultural norms differ and people who do that probably haven't learned that it's not appropriate.
However, I'm not sure it's true that not staring is purely "socially dictated" in the way that you mean.
In the wild, staring at an animal is generally considered threatening behavior. Similarly, I think people generally get uncomfortable when they are stared at. I'd venture to guess that the same people who do the staring would be extremely uncomfortable if they were in a different neighborhood and everyone there silently stared at them.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:45 am
I stare back. Nice if nice, hard if hard. Seriously, people, get a brain.
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amother
Ivory
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:51 am
I live in Williamsburg (born and bred) so I'll chime in here.
Most kids stare at anyone different out of curiosity . I don't think they would usually stares at non-jews, but when the see someone obviously Jewish but who is different than them they are curious and wonder.
I would say today's days most parents teach their kids about how it's not a nice thing to do if said parent catches the kid staring at someone . (I know me and my friends do that to our kids)
If there are adults who stare then it's because they were never made aware otherwise (and are obviously not socially savvy on their own) but I'd say today's days there is more awareness of everything different and not so much staring as in the past !
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amother
Ivory
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 9:57 am
I'll add to my above post: my father, with his full chassidic garb once traveled to some Texas off the map small town for something and he always said how everyone not only gawked at him, but after some serious whispers and stares came over to him what kind of person he is and from what planet.
I'm assuming they did that out of curiosity since they have never seen anyone look remotely like that.
I think everyone would be caught staring unaware if something piques their curiousity.
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amother
Crimson
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 10:24 am
I live in willi And have it all the time!!
Ppl stare with no shame and I usually look them right in the eye. They don’t bat an eye!!!
My neighbor (who happens to be we aren’t on talking terms due to her threatening me and my husband and other nasty stuff done to us by her) loves to stare at me and my dh. ALL THE TIME! Her head will twist to watch him walk down the steps or to his car. I’ve felt her burning gaze on my neck numerous times.
But keep in mind it’s not everyone. There r many nice ppl here who don’t stare Unfortunately the major r bad apples so to speak
U can’t change the society here.
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amother
Papaya
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 11:20 am
WhatFor wrote: | . I'd venture to guess that the same people who do the staring would be extremely uncomfortable if they were in a different neighborhood and everyone there silently stared at them. |
The same people who do the staring do get stared at when they travel in the outside world, as well as by tourists who visit their neighborhoods. Not that this justifies their own staring at people who are not staring at them, One of these days I will overcome my polite upbringing and walk over to the starers and give them what-for . I just wish my Yiddish were good enough to do it in their mamaloshen, but unfortunately my command of the language falls short.
I disagree with a PP that it’s mostly children. I get it from adults just as often. And what I REALLY don’t get is adult men staring at women. I mean, I’m clearly not of your sect and maybe to you any woman not of your sect is a shiqsah but where’s your shmiras einayim? I don’t think you have a heter for staring at a shiqsah either.
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ShishKabob
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 11:26 am
I hate to agree with this thread. I usually like to find something nice to say about people.
However, I think the bottom line is that these people are not taught that staring is rude.
I always point this out to my children.
It is rude to stare, if your gaze lingers for more than 3 seconds, it's considered staring!
It's not only a Williamsburg thing though.
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amother
Bronze
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Mon, Jul 16 2018, 1:18 pm
amother wrote: | I'll add to my above post: my father, with his full chassidic garb once traveled to some Texas off the map small town for something and he always said how everyone not only gawked at him, but after some serious whispers and stares came over to him what kind of person he is and from what planet.
I'm assuming they did that out of curiosity since they have never seen anyone look remotely like that.
I think everyone would be caught staring unaware if something piques their curiousity. |
Reminds me of an old joke:
A chassid in full garb has a business trip to Arkansas. As he walks down the street, he sees that he's being stared at by a whole group of children.
Finally, he stops and turns around. "What, you've never seen a Yankee before?"
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