Am I a bad mom? | Imamother

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:21 pm

Nikki wrote:

My daughter was not spoiled she was just too atached to me. She wouldn't go to anybody but me. She was 22 months

22 months and too attached to you? I find it shocking that you would think so. My opinion.

mimivan wrote:

What about the minhag with the Upsherin and boys should say aleph Beis in the cheder they will attend?

nice minhag Smile

Check out the Rambam's Hilchos Talmud Torah, halacha 6 which says, "When does a father have to start teaching his son Torah? From when he begins to speak, he teaches him, 'Torah tziva lanu Moshe,' and the first verse of Shema. Then he teaches him little by little, pesukim, until he is 6 or 7, all depending on his health and maturation, when he takes him to the melamed."

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The Rebbetzin's advice was all about choosing battles

I'm wondering why her focus is on battles.

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I know all mother's make mistakes, but if you cannot trust your conscience, then who can you trust.

I think we need to admit that we are highly subjective when it comes to our kids. It is helpful to discuss things with others. Haven't there been times you've seen other mothers do things that you know are not a great idea but you keep quiet about it? Wouldn't it be smart if mothers asked one another - tell me honestly, how can I improve in raising my children?

Why the pejorative word "fanaticism"?

And I am unconvinced that when a child likes something, that it's good for them. Children like writing on the walls, smearing diaper contents all over, swallowing bottles of aspirin etc. so ....

That children like other children is normal and nice. I'm in favor of children playing with other children (at age 2 they are merely in the same room) with mommy present.

mimivan

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 9:42 pm

Motek:

You compare sending a kid to gan to making him swallow a whole bottle of aspirin and you wonder why I use the term "fantacism" this extreme position on gan?? Rolling Eyes

I think that would be an accurate description for a bad gan (I have seen a few) or prematurely throwing a kid in gan, but any gan? Especially where a child gets good chinuch, friendship and is happy?

The biggest mistakes I have made as mother so far is when I have gone "against" that maternal voice and have taken on pressure from others. It happened when I put my son in gan too early (age 2...)because of pressure from others that he "had" to be there, and I am not going to let the equal and opposite pressure cause me to ignore that maternal voice and yank him out of a gan where I know he is happy and ready to attend (He is 4 now, if you didn't get that fact before)

I also have a masphia BTW....whom I consult about every move. I also put letters into the Igros Kodesh...

It is sad that I even feel I have to defend a decision to let my son go to a kosher gan where he gets tipul for his problem and is happy Crying

Oh well, that's imamother for you!

Last edited by mimivan on Tue, Sep 25 2007, 10:09 pm; edited 2 times in total

Motek

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 10:00 pm

mimivan wrote:

You compare sending a kid to gan to making him swallow a whole bottle of aspirin

Then you didn't get my point.

My point was when children enjoy something, that it is not necessarily an indication that it's good for them. "If it makes you happy ..." is something many people believe in, unfortunately.

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It is sad that I even feel I have to defend a decision to let my son go to a kosher gan where he gets tipul for his problem and is happy Crying

You don't have to defend it. Nobody said: Mimivan, you must post in that thread, defending your decision! Wink

And maybe, as a special needs child, gan is a special need for him.

Tehilla

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 10:17 pm

Quote:

I also have a masphia BTW....whom I consult about every move. I also put letters into the Igros Kodesh...

I'm with you here, mimi, about this. I love and support and raise my children with my entire being.

And yes, my 3 year old daughter is so happy and growing in her school.
And yes, my 18 month old who's been talking for longer than I care to tell people, yes she's been with an in-house babysitter in addition to myself. And yes, B"H both of them are highly intelligent, emotionally secure and confident children.

Not every mother can have children at home all the time, not every mother can bear the thought of having hers not at home all the time. There is a gamut of people, and experiences, and possible to have happy and well-adjusted children at both ends of the spectrum.

Just like some people can't imagine or fathom why anyone would use birth control and others almost have a breakdown at the thught of not using it...

I have a lot more to say. But I'm eating some unhealthy candy and cooking my Yom Tov food...so I'll leave it at this for the moment.

mimivan

Tue, Sep 25 2007, 10:24 pm

Thanks for the support Tehilla! LOL

and it is useful to keep in mind that we all have HOT BUTTON issues, and for every mom it is different. We have to be aware of them and avoid judging ourselves or other mothers too harshly because they might have different Hot Button issues.

Some women's hair stands up on the back of their neck when they hear other mothers talk about nosh, gan, birth control, spanking, weaning, co-sleeping, etc... (and to be fair, one of those issues is extremely hot button for me, but I'm not mentioning which one!)

We all love our children here and are trying our best! Lets give ourselves and others some credit and be aware of which issues drive us crazy!

Tamiri

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 2:47 am

[quote="mimivan"][quote]I want to die guilt free. I realized early on what price I would have to pay to merit that[/quote]

Quite frankly, I am inclined to be skeptical of anyone who says they are 100% guilt free....[/quote]

It's your right to be sceptical, Mimi. This current generation of mothers is so ridden with guilt (lav davka Yiddishe Mama guilt, it's fashionable for all mothers to say they feel guilty) that to feel UNguilty is an oddity. These days a "good" mother SHOULD feel guilt, otherwise she must be doing something wrong. My use of the word guilt is as it refers to raising my children.
I really feel we did and continue to do the best by our kids. Which is not to say they are turning out to be "the children of our dreams". But we did do the traditional things: made sure they were well cared for at all times (except for a year that we had our first with a metapelet so we have no idea what went on), got proper schooling according to their needs and abilities within the Jewish school system and were there for them at all times. We did not indulge or spoil them. We expect them to do their part in the household chores. They don't have to be "A" students or be brilliant. They don't have to think we are the best parents in the world. They don't have to live as we did/do. There was only one day in my eldest's life as a teenager that he was alone at home for one night (we were coming back from Israel on different flights - this is a biggie for me. I never feared what they were doing in my home while I was out. They could never cut school or hang out - I think I knew/know where my kids are about 90% of the time.
I do not have guilt. Really. I don't think I did it all right, and I did learn by trial and error but guilt... nope, not here. Just for the record we have 2 boys who are older (22 and 17), a med-aged one (14) and two younger (8 and almost 3) so we run the gamut of children's ages and at least on the eldest can say WE ARE DONE with chinuch, guilt free.

mimivan

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 3:40 am

Tamiri wrote:

mimivan wrote:

Quote:

I want to die guilt free. I realized early on what price I would have to pay to merit that

Quite frankly, I am inclined to be skeptical of anyone who says they are 100% guilt free....

It's your right to be sceptical, Mimi. This current generation of mothers is so ridden with guilt (lav davka Yiddishe Mama guilt, it's fashionable for all mothers to say they feel guilty) that to feel UNguilty is an oddity. These days a "good" mother SHOULD feel guilt, otherwise she must be doing something wrong. My use of the word guilt is as it refers to raising my children.
I really feel we did and continue to do the best by our kids. Which is not to say they are turning out to be "the children of our dreams". But we did do the traditional things: made sure they were well cared for at all times (except for a year that we had our first with a metapelet so we have no idea what went on), got proper schooling according to their needs and abilities within the Jewish school system and were there for them at all times. We did not indulge or spoil them. We expect them to do their part in the household chores. They don't have to be "A" students or be brilliant. They don't have to think we are the best parents in the world. They don't have to live as we did/do. There was only one day in my eldest's life as a teenager that he was alone at home for one night (we were coming back from Israel on different flights - this is a biggie for me. I never feared what they were doing in my home while I was out. They could never cut school or hang out - I think I knew/know where my kids are about 90% of the time.
I do not have guilt. Really. I don't think I did it all right, and I did learn by trial and error but guilt... nope, not here. Just for the record we have 2 boys who are older (22 and 17), a med-aged one (14) and two younger (8 and almost 3) so we run the gamut of children's ages and at least on the eldest can say WE ARE DONE with chinuch, guilt free.

Okay, Tamiri...You sound pretty okay a "human" to me... we might not agree on 3 year olds in gan but Kol ha kavod... your kids sound great.

Tamiri

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 4:19 am

[quote="amother"]Tamari, your kids are spaced out. If you had four kids close together maybe you would be talking differently.[/quote]

100% correct. If you do natural spacing with nursing and you have 2 - 2.5 years between kids, it's not so bad. I also don't think it's so bad for a SAHM to have the kid out a FEW (2-3) hours a day a few (2-3) days/week even when mom is not with the kid. I DO think it's terrible to read about SAHMs with ONE little kid who believe that only by sending them out can they (a) accomplish anything and (b) allow the kid to have a good time.
Which is why I wrote that Mother's need to restart learning the jobs.
The phenomenom of mothers having 4 kids under the age of 3 is a relatively new one and is a direct result of better health and more women not nursing their babies. The consequences are that in many instances the mothers can't handle a job that is truly too much to handle. I don't have a solution for that one. The mother is suffering so she sends the kid out so just say it like it is, not as if "it's better for the kid". It's not.
As for the compliment that my kids sound great: thank you. They are not great in the sense that they are movers and shakers and stand out as iluim. They are great in the sense that they are all independant and can handle themselves well in public. The best "great" that I can say so far, is that the 22 year old came over the Israel at 18, did an army prep program and then 2.5 years of combat military and didn't complain or get wimpy. We'll see what happens the rest his life. You don't need "great" children, for some reason everyone wants everything to be "amazing" these days: from shoes through recipes down to every other thing in life. You want MENCHES, and people have forgotten that.
[b]For Mimi:[/b] the problem I have with kids in Israel in gan are the looooong inflexible hours (they won't let you pay less for part time), the many days (6, at last count) and the fact that the ganim have far too many kids in them for the 2 caretakers. If you have a group of 5-6 three-year-olds, I don't think that's bad at all. With 35 I get uncomfortable.

mimivan

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 4:22 am

Tamiri wrote:

amother wrote:

Tamari, your kids are spaced out. If you had four kids close together maybe you would be talking differently.

100% correct. If you do natural spacing with nursing and you have 2 - 2.5 years between kids, it's not so bad. I also don't think it's so bad for a SAHM to have the kid out a FEW (2-3) hours a day a few (2-3) days/week even when mom is not with the kid. I DO think it's terrible to read about SAHMs with ONE little kid who believe that only by sending them out can they (a) accomplish anything and (b) allow the kid to have a good time.
Which is why I wrote that Mother's need to restart learning the jobs.
The phenomenom of mothers having 4 kids under the age of 3 is a relatively new one and is a direct result of better health and more women not nursing their babies. The consequences are that in many instances the mothers can't handle a job that is truly too much to handle. I don't have a solution for that one. The mother is suffering so she sends the kid out so just say it like it is, not as if "it's better for the kid". It's not.
As for the compliment that my kids sound great: thank you. They are not great in the sense that they are movers and shakers and stand out as iluim. They are great in the sense that they are all independant and can handle themselves well in public. The best "great" that I can say so far, is that the 22 year old came over the Israel at 18, did an army prep program and then 2.5 years of combat military and didn't complain or get wimpy. We'll see what happens the rest his life. You don't need "great" children, for some reason everyone wants everything to be "amazing" these days: from shoes through recipes down to every other thing in life. You want MENCHES, and people have forgotten that.
For Mimi: the problem I have with kids in Israel in gan are the looooong inflexible hours (they won't let you pay less for part time), the many days (6, at last count) and the fact that the ganim have far too many kids in them for the 2 caretakers. If you have a group of 5-6 three-year-olds, I don't think that's bad at all. With 35 I get uncomfortable.

Tamiri:
When my son was going to a private gan, the fee was much less for p/t..

and the gan he's in now the ratio is 6 kids to 3 ganenot! (but it is a special needs gan). Would that all the ratios were that small!

Tamiri

Wed, Sep 26 2007, 4:53 am

Wait! Hold the presses! Standing and making Yom Tov has got me thinking about the spacing issue. Don't know where my brain is. I have plenty of friends with much smaller spacing than I do and they didn't send their kids out. It just came to me: when you have a bunch of little kids spaced close together you... simply stop doing a lot of other things and focus on the kids! I have known people to do minimal (at best) cleaning, no mall wandering etc. because of all the little kids. Having all those kids was not an excuse to send them out, it was an excuse to do less housework etc. So it DOES work the other way. When I was the mother of just one child, 2, I met a lot of women my age who just couldn't focus on any lengthy conversation because... you guessed it.. they had a lot of little kids (a lot being 3-4 at a time). I realize that their brain was focused away from me. It doesn't last forever. Once the first kids start growing up, the life gets easier for mom.
For the record, I witnessed this 20 years ago in Pittsburgh, a place where many families had many children, and sending your kids out was NOT the norm. Not only could families not afford to do so, but the mothers wanted to mother. Ask anyone who grew up there what it was like. A real place, and real people.