Would you pay him??

amother

Tan

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 11:58 am

We hired a contractor to put spotlights in living room for xxxx money and to paint the bedrooms for yyyy money, about two weeks before we moved in. He assured us he should be able to complete both jobs on time.

To make a long story short, we moved in. Lights complete. Painting he had only removed wallpaper. Painter showed up moving day, did a bit of prep, and the next day, a bit more prep. The he dissappeared. For two weeks. He was sick, whatever. We badgered the contractor every day to find someone to complete the job. Finally after a few weeks, we found another cheap painter, on our own, to paint the bedrooms so we could finally unpack. We bought the paint and payed the new painter.

Now the contractor wants us to pay him. We told him we are happy to pay the agreed amount for the lights. He is upset and also wants 1000 dollars for the days his painter worked removing wallpaper and prepping.

But we agreed to pay his crazy price in the first place because we thought he'd get the job done on time! We could've gone with a cheaper guy in the first place and ended up with the same cheap job we have now. We agreed on a price for a completed job.

Am I completely biased or do I make sense?
Would you pay him and how much?

amother

Emerald

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:19 pm

I would probably say something along the lines of: Please provide me with a detailed invoice from the tradesperson to you regarding the specific work he performed, including time spent. I’d figure out if the invoice is reasonable (inquire with the painter who finished the job). I’d offer to pay that invoice, and nothing else. No profit margin to contractor.

Clearly if the invoice is out of line, I wouldn’t pay it - it would be a negotiation.

Chayalle

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:26 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

I'm very interested to read the responses here, and you may want to also ask this on https://businesshalacha.com/en

Agree, this is a Choshen Mishpat question. It's not for amothers to decide - the question is, what is the Halacha here?

amother

Tan

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:52 pm

I did speak to a Rav. I think halachically we are not obligated to pay.

I told the contractor I would give him a couple hundred for his time but he was majorly upset. After all this back and forth, I'm not interested in giving him anything anymore...

He kept texting me he wants to stop by for a check but never did yet.
At one point I texted
"Why should we lose out by paying for two painters for one job! He walked off the job. With no word of return. We waited two weeks. Xxx wanted over 1900 to take over the job! So we should have to pay double cuz yyy disappeared??"
And he responded
"So I should lose money"

Well, yeah... its not my fault you didn't complete the job...

Now he texted why can't you drop off a check already.

I want to drop off a check just for the lights but my husband wants to settle the whole thing first.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 12:57 pm

Each case is very different but we paid someone to do our wedding album - after asking them about it loads of times they she said it was ready 1 yr later - the pics only featured until after the Chupa, she gave us less pages than she had promised and she changed her mind about how much we cand edit it... we asked a shaila and was told we do not have to pay.

We ended up paying because they were so angry and we didn't want to be the cause of such a Machlokas.

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 1:05 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, you need to pay in full for the lighting. The work was completed on time and to your specifications.

Yes, you need to make a partial payment for the work performed in removing wallpaper and prepping the walls for painting. I don't know what that payment would be.

amother

Tan

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 3:03 pm

amother wrote:

Did you read my post??? paying him for the lighting was never a question...

And you would feel obligated to make a partial payment when the price was set for a completed job, not by the day or hour? Or just feel that its menchlicht?

amother

Tangerine

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 3:20 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, I read your post. If you were as polite to your workers as you are to the people who are assisting you, I understand why they walked out.

And yes, you are obligated to pay for work done, even if not completed. Because the work was done, and used by you. If it had to be re-done, then you don't pay. But the fact is that the wallpaper was removed, and the walls were prepped. You didn't have to pay someone else for that work. Should the fee be discounted by the fact that it wasn't completed? Perhaps. But you do have to pay for the work done.

amother

Emerald

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 3:34 pm

amother wrote:

The contractor didn’t earn anything here. He's job was to find subcontractors to finish a paint project in short order. He failed at that. His subcontractor still needs payment for work done. The question is: how much ‘out of pocket’ if at all, should contractor be for the work that was performed.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 4:14 pm

You should pay xxxx for the spotlights for sure.

As for the cost yyyy for the bedroom -- not sure.

On one hand, he should be paid for the partial work he did do.

OTOH, this was major inconvenience. You needed to find your own painter (the contractor should have done that) and incur delays in unpacking. Plus, you had to badger the contractor to get him moving. And you bought your own paint (did his initial quote of yyyy include paint?).

If you have an itemized price list (not one that he writes up now, but at the time of the agreement), then I guess pay him for any completed work.

Was there any clause in your agreement about payment contingent upon timely completion?

amother

Tan

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 4:25 pm

DrMom wrote:

No he just gave me one quote for lighting and one for painting. He said he'd pick up the paint (and now tried to charge me first asked for 1300 as he said he spent over 300 on paint and supplies!!! Which we never saw!!) When I originally tried asking him what exactly the quote included he never responded.
I assumed I'd pay him when he completed the job. Would've had to pay him even if it wasn't timely. The problem is that he didn't complete it and I hired someone else.

rachel6543

Mon, Aug 20 2018, 5:00 pm

Honestly, I would contact the state licensing board about this situation. (Hopefully you used a licensed contractor ). They should be able to help in this issue. I had an issue a few years ago with a contractor who did an unprofessional job for me and in fact, their contractor license was suspended when they did the actual work on my property (yes I had checked before they started work when I hired them they had a valid license, it was just suspended after I had checked but before they started work). Long story short, I ended up getting a refund on the deposit I paid and they ended up not getting paid for my particular job. I would also put complaints with the BBB and yelp. I think the fact I put a yelp review with pictures of the poor work really helped me in getting my money back.