BE A MENTSCH!! A rant/vent

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Succos

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amother

Gold

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 6:28 pm

Ok, I’m really sorry guys. I’ve literally sat on my hands not to post this because yom tov is so beautiful and I don’t want to be negative....BUT!
If you live anywhere in an overpopulated Yiddish neighborhood like I do you can probably commiserate.
Restaurants and shuls build sukkahs all the way to the curb without leaving any space to pass. Baruch H-Shem I have two children in a double carriage and another on the way, so I have a separate issue with the establishments that leave space for one (extremely underweight) person to pass.
I’ve seen sukkahs with official “walkways” on the gutter that they forgot to set up before yom tov.
Some leave you six inches to (finagle and huff and push) your way into the street, but then someone parked there before yom tov and blocked the space. You need to turn around and go back to the corner so you can cross to the other side. Oh wait, and they locked the doors so you can’t just go through.
One pizza store builds the most elaborate sukkah EREV ROSH HASHANAH until about a foot to the curb (they have about ten customers a day, max) and it’s a bus depot, so your option is pretty much retrace your steps or get run over by a bus pulling in. For two days chol hammed they have a sukkah up for two and a half weeks.
I’m in my first trimester and really weak this time around. I live pretty far out and every extra step makes a difference.
Is this called doing a mitzvah?!

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:02 pm

amother wrote:

Your rant/vent isn't fair.

Out of curiosity, what do you want the restaurants to do? If they build the walkway too far into the street, they interfere with traffic. They can't do anything about cars parking where they are not supposed to. They need the sukkahs for parnosa. Customers need them as the men don't have a choice.

Do you really think a pizza store is able to maintain its business with ten customers a day max? I think you are not being realistic as they are next to a bus depot.

Chol homoed has 4 days. When do you want them to build their sukkahs? They can't always get workers at the last minute. It is a foolish businessman who doesn't plan to have his sukkah up in advance. Suppose there is a list minute snafu. He will lose customers and parnosa if that sukkah is not ready for customers the moment it is supposed to.

If sukkahs are such a problem for you, walk elsewhere.

amother

Peach

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:05 pm

amother wrote:

I give you a beracha that this should be the worst problem in your life, instead of health, shalom bayit, issues with children....

octopus

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:08 pm

I agree with op. It is very hard and makes things very difficult. Op was just venting. Plus the stores don't own the sidewalk that is public property.

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:20 pm

octopus wrote:

I agree with op. It is very hard and makes things very difficult. Op was just venting. Plus the stores don't own the sidewalk that is public property.

It is wrong not to support Jewish businesses in what they need to do to accommodate religious practices.

The businesses are open to the public. If the municipality says the sidewalk can be used for the business, the sidewalk can be used for the business. End of discussion.

Without restaurants with sukkahs being open chol homeod, then many families couldn't go out. They should be more inconvenienced.

Better those that find accommodating religious men hard stay home than religious businesses close down.

daagahminayin

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:24 pm

It sounds very difficult and frustrating for you, and a bit dangerous if you have to walk in the roads with your stroller! The only thing I can think of is speaking with the restaurant owners next year before Rosh Hashana to make them aware of how their sukkah placement negatively affects you and others, and see if you can come up with a solution together.

Meanwhile, b’sha’ah tova and feel good!!

perquacky

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:32 pm

I'm going to assume that if the sidewalk is blocked, then the sukkah is probably illegal. But who's going to enforce that?

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:41 pm

perquacky wrote:

I'm going to assume that if the sidewalk is blocked, then the sukkah is probably illegal. But who's going to enforce that?

DH blocks sidewalks in his work. It is done legally.

amother

Saddlebrown

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:44 pm

I do think that these establisments don't put in enough thought when doing this. It's true they need it especially the shuls. But they could go a little smaller and accommodate the people walking thru. And sometimes they block parking as well which is pretty tight as is in some areas.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 7:51 pm

I have news for you so don't walk down 13th Avenue if you live in Boro Park. Or avenue J if you live in Flatbush. Do probably live in Boro Park because you don't drive according to my understanding from your post you're pushing a carriage

real israeli

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 8:44 pm

All those saying support frum businesses haven’t seen what goes on in boro Park. I happen to agree with op completely. I highly doubt it is legal to block the entire sidewalk leaving no space for people to walk. And it certainly isn’t fair. I’ve had to walk out of my way many times because of it. And get frustrated each time. Even if 40 people will use the sukka - more than that are passing by on foot over Yom Tov... why do all people have to walk so much extra? And this includes elderly people, wheelchair bound, disabled... not just strollers

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 8:52 pm

I'm pretty sure there is a halachic issue with building a sukkah in a place that blocks people from walking by. Definitely an issue of using property that doesn't belong to you, not sure how that translates to public sidewalks....

Op, I totally hear your complaint and I think it's valid. Having a business should not excuse you from being considerate. Your parnassah shouldn't come at everyone else's expense.

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 9:09 pm

amother wrote:

But it is not just a parnosa issue. It is an issue of everyone who needs a sukkah. I would rather the law is enforced to get rid of all the fire hazard sukkahs built on balconies than deprive the public from use of sukkahs.

It is awful to hear Jews anti-sukkah. Right now I am in a town that is anti-sukkah. Last year we had a choice of places to eat. Now there is one place, and we are eating in the rabbi's private sukkah at his house which isn't so close without access to bathrooms or a selection of restaurants.

The handful of kosher restaurants are forced to be closed this week. They never had a great business to begin with. Is this what you would prefer happens? Suppose they can't survive this week? Suppose their workers need steadier employment?

Be careful when you wish that Jews can't build sukkahs on sidewalks. At least where I am, it is the non--Jews who aren't tolerant of the religious needs of Jews.

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 9:32 pm

amother wrote:

If there are no sukkahs in the city then I would think the Rav has a responsibility to make sure there is one that is accessible. On land not blocking an inconveniencing others.

Nobody here to me seems anti-sukkah. The question is where you put it and who you inconvenience. When a store owner opens a shop they know sukkot will be an issue- then work it out in the beginning. It doesn't just pop out of nowhere, it's build in to our religion!

I agree fire hazard sukkahs are a problem - but so are those forcing people into dangerous streets and roads and needing to manuver precariously around. We may as well tell anyone with a stroller, wheelchair, cane etc. That due to people's NEED (read: want) to eat out over sukkot, they should stay indoors - we can accommodate store owners butting into everyone's space but we can't safely accomodate those who need physical space to walk/ride.

And if it's hard for us to deal with, you can only imagine the chilul Hashem being caused by those not Jewish who don't come post about it to Imamother.

real israeli

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 9:36 pm

I am not anti sukka. And am happy for them to have one on the sidewalk. But making it a bit smaller would be nice. Even if it means seating 8 instead of 16 people. The women can eat indoors if needed.

DREAMING

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 9:42 pm

I get upset when a car blocks the sidewalk by parking in their "driveway". Try maneuvering the carriage and toddler on the gutter while cars are driving

amother

Gold

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 9:54 pm

DREAMING wrote:

I get upset when a car blocks the Wink

sidewalk by parking in their "driveway". Try maneuvering the carriage and toddler on the gutter while cars are driving

Oh, don’t get me started! I think it’s the preg hormones that just make me mad... this is Brooklyn but not thirteenth or ave I where I think ppl are more careful because there’s more traffic (I’ve never had a prob walking down thirteenth)and I’m talking about walking on yom tov when I don’t drive... Smile

I doubt it’s legal to build until the curb, there’s must be some requirement to leave room for pedestrians. All restaurants and shuls should have Sukkahs, 100%, but I’ve seen some highly popular stores build theirs from like four feet out til the curb and I blessed them.
And my other *brain fart* is that they build it two weeks in advanc. If you gotta do it, try to Keep the incovenience to a minimum!

amother

Navy

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 10:37 pm

I agree with OP 100%. In Willi it's out of hand, forget about the walking space, shuls build huge sukkah's that take up 5 or more parking spaces. It's crazy, why has this become acceptable???

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 26 2018, 10:59 pm

amother wrote:

I am the pro-sukkah amother. I am handicapped and walk with assistance. I still rather see sukkahs accommodating frum Jews than clear sidewalks and Jews unable to eat this week.

They build 2 weeks in advance because they can't count on having someone there at the last minute.

amother

Bronze

Thu, Sep 27 2018, 1:31 am

To the amother who said Jews need to eat on Succos : there are plenty of foods that can be eaten without a Sukkah (is it mezonos that's forbidden? Can't remember!)

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