Defining ourselves as conservative or liberal

amother

Brunette

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 1:18 pm

amother wrote:

Well I’m sure that no matter where we stand on the political spectrum, we’re all thrilled (sarcasm alert) to know that as of this week, NYS law allows you to change your birth certificate to show your gender as X. Infants must still be identified as male or female.

Will we soon have shadchanim specializing in X clients?

Hey but why should the mother and father be allowed to choose the child's gender?
Shouldn't it be left blank until the child is of age to decide for him/herself?

This is sarcastic, but I can picture this happening in the not so distant future.

Ravenclaw

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 1:24 pm

Oh gosh I totally agree. When people ask me what I am, I say “Ask me about a specific policy and I’ll tell you.”
I don’t believe in excessive social programs, but I do think there should be more help gaining opportunities. I think the second amendment is wonderful (though I am not a fan of semi-automatic rifles), while rooting for the Dreamers. Am I liberal? Some people tell me I am disparagingly. But I am totally conservative when it comes to gender, affirmative action, etc. I hate victim culture.
Why does it have to be either or?

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 1:27 pm

southernbubby wrote:

It certainly doesn't impact my life. I think people make too big of a deal over it.

Exactly.

Who cares? Presumably, your children will be identified as male or female. Also, presumably, you will ensure that your children marry persons of the appropriate gender.

If someone believes that s/he is not "gender binary," and wants that on their birth certificate, or if someone believes that gender is an artificial construct, or whatever it is, why does it affect you. Who cares.

Frankly, for all I care, they could put X on my kids' birth certificates. Anyone who needs to know their genders will.

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 1:37 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Centrist Libertarian Independent. (I'm a Gemini, what did you expect?) LOL

I'm not a single issue voter, unless it comes to the security of the State of Israel. I support gay rights, but if a gay hating politician will protect Israel, I'm going to suck it up and go with Israel. Same with any other hot button issue. Israel is always first in my book.

Yes, I know we're talking about American politics, but I'm an Israeli American. We all have our pet issues.

You live in Israel, so its not surprising that you think that what happens in Israel is more important than what happens in the US. (I think that the voting rights of citizens living abroad should be limited, particularly in regards to persons whose parents are citizens but have never lived in the US, for exactly that reason. But I digress.)

I live in the US. So while Israel is important to me, and I doubt I could ever vote for someone I thought opposed Israel, the US is simply more important.

BTW, there are very, very few US politicians who are actually anti-Israel. They may have a different vision than you of what is good for Israel. But hey, so do plenty of Israelis. And I can safely say that with no clue of your political view of Israel.

marina

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 1:55 pm

Quote:

Another bellwether, I believe, are the #WalkAway videos -- the testimonies of former liberals/Democrats denouncing what they've come to believe is left-wing extremism.

What are your thoughts on the authenticity of this movement and the potential exploitation by outside forces?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch.....otos/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.....2d083

marina

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:00 pm

amother wrote:

There are quite a few people who are born intersex. It's much more common than you might think. They are literally neither male nor female when they are born and their parents just pick one based on the situation. If those people- as adults - want to disagree with their parents' decision and call themselves X, would you really object? Why?

SixOfWands

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:02 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

Another bellwether, I believe, are the #WalkAway videos -- the testimonies of former liberals/Democrats denouncing what they've come to believe is left-wing extremism.

What are your thoughts on the authenticity of this movement and the potential exploitation by outside forces?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch.....otos/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.....2d083

Not to mention the opposite:

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....236c6

No stock photos needed.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:24 pm

Politically I do define myself as a conservative (with libertarian leanings). It happens to be that that's how my political ideologies line up. I'm not moderate. I'm not all over the board.

But that's just politics and I would not define myself soley on my politics anymore than I'd define myself solely by my job, my taste in music, my food preferences, my education background, my fashion sense, or anything else about me that is just a portion of who I am.

I cannot stand liberalism. I cannot understand liberalism. I cannot relate in any way to it. I can't understand how educated people can support such thinking. And yet, some of the greatest people I know are liberals. How sad would it be if I couldn't look beyond politics at the whole person and see their depth and wonderfulness.

Yes, I've been "unfriended" many times over and even uninvited from a family gathering because of my politics (which is baffling because I really have the sense to 'read a room' and will keep my opinions to myself when I sense they are unwelcome). It's pathetic, but the loss is really not mine.

southernbubby

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:35 pm

amother wrote:

Liberalism strives to provide rights and inclusion for minorities be it racial or gender identity/orientation. It concerns itself with the rights of the poor and the rights of women and tries to provide understanding on how the poor became the poor. I have no problem understanding why a marginalized group would seek out rights.

I do have trouble understanding how a thinking or educated person can advocate for policies that would not work in a large and diverse population such as the US. To me that is when it sounds like pie in the sky.

marina

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:43 pm

amother wrote:

If you feel this strongly about liberalism, I'm not sure you are familiar with anything but the extremists. Moderate liberalism - and moderate conservatism - is relatively easy to understand and relate to, even if you disagree with it.

amother

Forestgreen

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:46 pm

southernbubby wrote:

100% that Israel should be our first priority!

I believe that Hashem takes care of Israel. Some of the people we hoped would take care of Israel the most have disappointed us the most (I.e. Ariel Sharon and GWB). On the other hand, my ability to insure my large family, especially with a chronically ill spouse weighs on me. I’m afraid that I have become a single issue voter, and that issue is health insurance. I should probably be ashamed of myself.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:48 pm

marina wrote:

As an outsider, it sure seems like the extremists have hijacked the democratic party. So yes, that is what I find impossible to understand/ relate to. 20 years ago I never felt this way about liberalism. It was a different animal then. I didn't agree with it, but could at least see where people were coming from. Not so anymore.

amother

Babyblue

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:51 pm

southernbubby wrote:

We are beyond that. Minorities have all the same legal rights. Obviously having all the rights on paper doesn't always translate into being treated correctly across the board in every situation in every nook of society, but that is not something that can be legislated anyhow. And trying to understand how the poor became poor is not a function of government.

southernbubby

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:56 pm

amother wrote:

I think that everyone has the right to vote for the things that impact them the most. Some liberals are pro-Palestinian to the point that they are a danger to Israel with BDS.

I have a relative who gets extended Medicaid and this person never has a good word for Obama, even though it is Obama that makes this person's health care possible.

This relative buys into every conservative conspiracy theory out there but fails to appreciate that it was the liberals who are keeping him healthy.

finallyamommy

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 2:58 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Centrist Libertarian Independent. (I'm a Gemini, what did you expect?) LOL

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I had to stop here and ask about this. In theory I agree with you about Israel always being first, it's just that when I'm following election news both sides insist they are pro-Israel so I'm not really sure what to do with that anymore. Even now, my liberal friends and family insist that Trump is terrible for Israel and my conservative friends insist that he's wonderful for Israel. I'm curious what you (or anyone else who wants to answer) considers "good for Israel" when it comes to choosing who to vote for. Feel free to answer by PM if you want.

southernbubby

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 3:01 pm

amother wrote:

I am not so sure that we are beyond that. Blacks are a larger portion of the prison population and serve longer sentences. Somehow that is legal but should it be?

The working poor are making up an increasingly larger portion of the population due to low wages. Should society address that or should we wait until we have a larger contingent of society who can't participate in the economy?

Fox

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 3:26 pm

marina wrote:

Quote:

Another bellwether, I believe, are the #WalkAway videos -- the testimonies of former liberals/Democrats denouncing what they've come to believe is left-wing extremism.

What are your thoughts on the authenticity of this movement and the potential exploitation by outside forces?

https://www.snopes.com/fact-ch.....otos/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.....2d083

We've been over this and over this and over this:

1. The first link, Snopes, references memes. #WalkAway never promoted memes. It was always videos and longer first-person narratives on Facebook. As Snopes says, Straka disclaimed any connection with the memes circulating. This was the kind of non-controversy Snopes is increasingly dealing in: the memes were obviously false, and the organization had nothing to do with them. So there's nothing really to say, which is the conclusion Snopes reached.

2. Bots are only useful for manipulating engagement statistics. Bots do not make videos or write essays on Facebook. So for the first few weeks after Straka released his initial video, there was an upsurge in what was likely bot-driven engagement. Um, okay. So people measuring social media engagement may have thought that #WalkAway was generating more re-tweets, etc., than were really legitimate. That still has no impact on the number or content of the videos or Facebook narratives.

SixOfWands wrote:

Not to mention the opposite:

https://www.washingtonpost.com.....3d01c236c6

No stock photos needed.

Max Boot, bless his heart, has been predicting that the world is ending because of Trump for a while now. In fact, he's the subject of endless jokes on Twitter because he predicts that every hiccup spells the end for Trump, the Republican Party, and life as we know it.

As I keep saying about similar claims, it's quite possible the world will end because of Trump, but I'm going to go ahead and pay my electric bill just in case it doesn't.

Fox

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 3:33 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Well, arguably, things have gotten worse for African-Americans and the working poor under liberal governments:

* Decades of progress in black communities were wiped out by Clinton-era law enforcement acts (protecting us from so-called "super-predators").

* NAFTA decimated lower-wage and manufacturing jobs -- and President Obama basically said, "tough luck."

* Illegal immigration has driven down low-wage and entry-level wages.

amother

Green

Wed, Oct 10 2018, 3:37 pm

amother wrote:

Personally - I think we should just do away with gender all together. (using the femist concept that gender and sx organs are different).