Poor Shaming on Purim

ShishKabob

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 10:46 am

Menno wrote:

I believe in "change yourself and you have changed the world".
When it comes to Purim, many people enjoy going all out and creating an elaborate MM. Others would rather keep it simple. Instead of trying to change society, do what you want! Stop caring about what everyone will think! If you want to give something simple - go for it!
Many people love to give every person they have ever met and it is a beautiful thing. But if you feel pressured by it, please don't.
Just do what is good for you and stop worrying about everyone else.

Our world has really turned upside down.
Purim, specifically the mitzvah of mm was supposed to enhance our love for each other, it seems the opposite is happening.

amother

Ivory

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:13 am

watergirl wrote:

someone mocking the “kiddy like mishloach manos sent OOT by BTs who dont know the norms” (still trying to figure that one out but my guess is the amother who wrote that is the one who doesnt know what the norms are)

I didn't see this thread, but as a BT from "out of town," I experienced quite the culture shock on my first Purim in New York. I didn't know mishloach manot was supposed to be fancy. Never heard of such a thing. I put a few hamantaschen and a piece of fruit into simple paper bags and gave them to my neighbors...no one "shamed" me, exactly, but I did see some interesting facial expressions. And I was not quite sure what to make of the elaborate gifts we received. Our expectations were totally different.

imorethanamother

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:26 am

amother wrote:

Another issue I have with mm is when teachers tell their students “try to give to a girl who may not be getting from any other girls” because my daughter listened and did this not realizing that it comes along with a certain responsibility: the girl was very excited that she now had a friend. I dont think its fair to give to a friendless girl with no intention of follow up

So... WHY would your daughter not be friends with this girl now? This post made me so sad.

My son has someone in his class who has aspergers. I insisted my son invite him over on shabbos, repeatedly. He was upset at me for a while, but now it's just normal. It doesn't hurt anyone, it just spreads more happiness. Isn't that the lesson of Purim?

amother

Babypink

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:29 am

amother wrote:

So she shouldn't give someone a gift, because then that person will have further expectations? What if it were your daughter being shunned and excluded?

watergirl

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:43 am

amother wrote:

Ummmmm so as the parent its your job to make sure that your daughter follows up! That poor girl! She is friendless. Why are you not understanding that thats not ok? What if it were your daughter?

But I’m not sure what this post has to do with poor shaming. I wonder if you are part of the problem.

amother

Crimson

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:51 am

amother wrote:

Why can't she follow up with a play date?

There was actually a story in the teen pages of mishpacha this week about a teacher making a similar announcement. One girl suddenly had her doorbell ringing all Purim, whereas she had previously never received mm but hadn't even realized that no one bothered coming over. It didn't take her too long to connect the dots and realize that her whole class thought of her as a nebach. I think that's the real risk in those announcements. It should come from the parents.

SixOfWands

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 11:58 am

amother wrote:

This may be the saddest thing I've ever seen here.

A poor little girl who has no friends, not even anyone who feels sufficiently warmly about her to give her MM.

To be stuck in the classroom where she has to hear the teacher imploring the girls to give to the girl who gets nothing. Knowing full well that the teacher is talking about her.

How humiliating is that?

And then to finally get something, and wonder if the giver might actually feel kindly towards her. Only to have her face figuratively slapped -- I gave to you because everyone knows you're a loser; how could you ever think that I liked you.

(And imagine how parents of those children feel now. Knowing that there are mothers out there telling their daughters that they don't need to give to that Loser, because we wouldn't want anyone to think that you might actually befriend her.)

33055

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:29 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

That's quite a hallmark story. Give teachers some credit for not being complete idiots.

The story I am getting is that the girl who received the MM may have some social issues and made the giver uncomfortable. There's no mean girl intention here; otherwise, she shouldn't have given the MM .in the first place.

I have often encouraged my children to make friends with the outcast kids. Children will make friends with other children who resonate with them for whatever reason. Water runs to the same level. It never worked out with the friendships I pushed on my kids through the years. There were personality reasons the kids were excluded. In some cases they were brats and would tantrum. in others the kids wouldn't engage in play.

It should not be up to their peers to fix social issues. This is a parenting and teacher responsibility.

That being said that no one should bully or exclude a child from a group, but my experience is that kids form their own one on one friends.

Signed,

A former excluded girl

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:42 pm

amother wrote:

I don't like this either. MM should be personal and private IMO. Yours is too institutionalized for me.

I personally love it. At my age there is no thrill in going all over town to give all the shul members. I would rather let the shul handle it. I will still find someone to give to on Purim day.
As far as teaching children not to expect life to be fair; we have to teach them how to be fair. That means including less popular kids as well as how not to make a kid feel bad for giving paltry MM. It also means interceding with the day schools to create policies that don't penalize students and their families for being poor. It may also mean arranging tzedukah before Purim so that the poor can participate like everyone else.

33055

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 12:56 pm

southernbubby wrote:

The problem with giving tzedukah to the poor to give MM creates pressure on the next level up. Why not just allow everyone to do what they can? The mitzvah can be fulfilled simply. School rules can deal with the problems among the children.

My community has costume gamachs which I think are great. But when you start giving funding to pay for hair bows and other luxuries, all you do is reinforce materialism and uniformity.

Funding for hair bows is a thing that I have written about before. When you raise the bar for the lowest strata to have $20 matching hair bows for all the girls, the next level feels pressure for the new standards or they feel neeby in their $1 hair bows.

I was going to write that if we keep this up we will be giving funding for vacations. We are already there.

sky

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:02 pm

We have so many highlights people want to do away with:

My boys love going to their rebbe and principal to bring m”m and dance a little and gave a piece of kugel and cake. It brings a closeness.
My girls love going to their morahs in their costumes to show off the full affect.
I love making and giving mishloach manos to so many people. I exchange with at least 20 neighbors. No one spends over $3. It’s lovely with kids and couples marching around.

I’m always surprised that those that complain about the conformity of yiddishkeit come up with a list of should do and made up rules....

southernbubby

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 1:14 pm

Squishy wrote:

Maybe an organization can order cases of snacks and sell them to poor families at cost price so that the kids can at least have something to give out. The parents are still paying for it but it doesn't bring in profit for business.
With overpriced hair bows, that may be the only new thing that a girl gets for the season.
I see that an organization in Monsey got some warehouse space and now poor families are able to get new household items that Walmart can't sell. The poor have to get a letter from a Rav and they get a free microwave oven and other needs. Some are poor kallahs.
In my mind that isn't going to create the type of jealousy that raises the bar because the goods are generally not high end to begin with.

debsey

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 2:09 pm

ra_mom wrote:

watergirl, how many of us encounter people like this in real life? Purim is so much fun and there's such camaraderie. Only on imamother have I seen such attitude. Not real life stuff. Unless there's a specific community that's like this that I haven't come across.

Eh....it's only competitive if you feel that way.

Personally, I give what I give and if someone wants to judge me, oh well. I'd rather do a corny and cute poem with stuff that's prepackaged so I can make it in advance than bake or cook or assemble salads, so that's what I do.

It's an opportunity to have fun with my kids, not to impress my neighbors. If a neighbor is unimpressed, that says more about her than about me.

I do see rebbe and morah M"M as an opportunity to give back and express appreciation, but I give a simple M"M and put in a nice note and a check. If the Morah won't be wowed by my perfectly shaped babka (because I don't bake one!) and my taste in wrapping, I'll have to live with that.

33055

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 2:32 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I saw a friend at a local hosey store. She was given vouchers of I think $100 for each girl. She was filling up baskets with expensive hair bows. She has 5 or 6 girls now. These girls get dresses and shoes for yontiff from gemachs in addition to the bows. That's lovely. But how many families can't afford $500 a season for hair bows and whatever? The mom wears designer clothes and the family goes away for school vacations.

We take such good care of our poor that sometimes it the next level up that squeezed. The standards are raised needlessly.

FTR - most of the bows and headbands can be created at home for pennies and a glue gun.

amother

Lawngreen

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 2:40 pm

amother wrote:

Just know that your MMs were halachically appropriate. IMHO the elaborate gifts you received were a waste of $. This really upsets me as so many needy people could have got more $ if they had just given the same type of MMs as you.

amother

Forestgreen

Mon, Mar 18 2019, 2:59 pm

amother wrote:

She did!
The teenage version of a play date
But the article was spot on
Noone wants to just be a rachmanis- it needs to be real