Neturei Karta opening Yeshiva PA Occupied Hebron

gingertop

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:03 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I AM NOT DEFENDING THEIR POLITICS! IMO it's indefensible. I am merely speaking to what the poster said who told SB to move because they live on the same block.

Again, I didn't say you defended their politics. But you did praise them as uniquely good people. Reread your own posts. They're cleaner, nicer than everyone else.
Would you say this about other Jews who stand with anti-Semites? Like the hypothetical Good Neighbors who are the token Jews of people who want to ban Jews? If people are angry at them because homeowners are discriminating against Jews with their support, do you think it's appropriate to announce what lovely neighbors one family of them is?
Or how about the very real apostates throughout the ages who provided fodder for X-tian hate? Do you think every renegade Jew who told the Church that Jews were putting blood in matza was also a slob? Maybe they were neat and clean and had good interactions with their neighbors. But why would anyone announce how lovely they are?

Bad people who align themselves with terrible people can be good neighbors but the only purpose in writing post after post about what wonderful people they are is to whitewash the terrible things they do.

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:05 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Not sure why anyone is so scared to call a rasha a rasha. The Torah has no such hesitations. There are red lines that I can't accept someone crossing, as a frum Jew. And yes, their deeply held beliefs will absolutely affect my opinion on them.

I have no idea how this compares to what other nations think of me. That's not how I form opinions. I follow the Torah and use it as a guidebook in terms of right and wrong. Some behaviors are unquestionably wrong, and this is one of them. It's not a political belief, it's a form of anti semitism. Collaborating with the enemy to kill Jews.

I claim a lack of expertise of their politics. I knows they have done some terrible things like say EY should not exist, and they provided humanitarian aid to Palestinians, but I sincerely doubt my neighbors collaborated to kill Jews.

He comes across in the news exactly like he is in person. Why hasn't he been arrested for collaborating to murder?

amother

Aubergine

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:10 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

So your excuse is that you're burying your head in the sand. If he's aligning with a group that has very specific beliefs, he can be assumed to share those beliefs.

I'm not aware of Americans getting arrested for small time support of terrorist organizations outside the US. American law is not my yardstick for acceptable behavior.

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:14 pm

gingertop wrote:

Because they are good neighbors. They are not unique in keeping their property nice, but this is important in seeing someone as a good neighbor. I have many other good neighbors who are clean and nice.

They are not a reason to move.

If they were nasty, or slobs, or aggravated me with their political views, then I could say they are bad neighbors, but I see nothing about them collaborating to murder Jews. This sounds like sensationalist nonsense.

ectomorph

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:21 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Many Poles said the same about concentration camps.

Deliberate naivete is also evil.

Neturei karta attended a holocaust denial conference hosted by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. https://int.icej.org/news/head.....enial

They regularly support those who seek the destruction of the Jewish people.

To support them is to support the Judenrat.
My grandfather was offered a position in the judenrat shortly before his town was invaded and 4,000 jews killed, with only 10 survivors that we know of.

He refused, and pointed out after the war that not a single member of the judenrat survived because they trusted the Germans.

gingertop

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:34 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I don't think you should move. I think you should not praise them.

Even the most evil of people need to justify their anti-Semitism. Jews who agree with anti-Semites make their job easier.

NK davened for Arafat, a man responsible for more Jewish deaths than anyone after Stalin ym"sh. This makes the wanton murder of Jews in Israel "not anti-Semitic, just anti-Zionist". They blur the distinctions as such people always have.
Hitler only wanted to clear Germany of the parisitic Jews of the east and the communists. Stalin didn't hate Jews, only Jews who were from the bourgeois or who tried to brainwash Jewish children by teaching aleph beis. Etc. There are always a tiny minority who carry water for anti-Semites.

I just wouldn't praise people for whom the blood of so many Jews is cheap, as long as they get a rise out of being the True Believers (tm). They're ridiculous ideologues who have gone too far.

amother

Aqua

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:41 pm

amother [ Aubergine ] wrote:

Small time support is different than an accomplice to murder. I don't agree with his poltics, but the murder charges are ridiculous and false.

President Omama supported governments that propped up terrorist regimes. What about billions of dollars in large time support? Where's the hysteria and the thou must hate decrees?

amother

Jetblack

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:47 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

They go to strict chassish schools. Most of the chassidim, in my neighborhood, don't have a problem with them at all. It's the supposedly open minded ones or Israelis that have the issues and want to stir things up - NIMBY.

Again, I am only speaking of them being neighbors. They are quiet and mind their own business except to do neighborly things like dropoff food. All of them say hello and goodbye which I don't get from some of other my male neighbors and DH doesn't get from some of our female neighbors.

Then the problem is Chassidish complacency. You knows why you are ok with them,? Bec they dress more tznius than you. If they were dressed less tznius you would not be ok at all. I remember when I lived I'm Eretz Yisroel about 7 years ago there was a group of hidden I think it was lev Tahor and they were trying to entrap ppl and putting up signs in my very shared neighborhood...they were chtzpadik to the gaavad, at least one woman refused to go to the mikvah, made up new halachos etc.. and ppl didn't care enough. Do you know why? Bec they were dressed too genius! We need to care more when people piggy back on yidishkeit and misrepresent us and especially in this case hurt us. So yes wake up all of you who cant see past a long black dress. Btw I am Chassidish. Super frum.

amother

Aubergine

Wed, May 08 2019, 6:54 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Lol. You're actually defending Jews who provide monetary and political support to known terrorist organizations that exist to destroy Israel and its Jewish inhabitants. Everything else is a red herring. Enjoy your wonderful neighbors.

dankbar

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:01 pm

Exactly if they support PA, then they're supporting murder. They give them fuel.
They think they can placate them & appease them, but in meantime they are tearing down their own brethren & besmirching & blaming the Israelis for the strife. Since sinai, nonjews have a hatred towards Jews, they give them more reason for them to hate us.
It's bad enough, the media always twists the facts, to side with PA & go against Israel, they don't need to help them.

leah233

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:09 pm

amother [ Jetblack ] wrote:

Then the problem is Chassidish complacency. You knows why you are ok with them,? Bec they dress more tznius than you. If they were dressed less tznius you would not be ok at all.

I can think of plenty of secular (ostensibly) Jewish groups that are just as pro Palestinian as the NK , are just as vocal and give the exact same propaganda as the NK (but are a lot more effective) yet they are a lot less condemned than the NK is in frum circles.

And those groups are all anti-frum to boot

gingertop

Wed, May 08 2019, 7:12 pm

Back to the original topic, LOL.

I highly doubt this yeshiva will happen. I seem to recall similar pronouncements in the past but google hasn't been a help.

They'll get 1-2 weeks of attention for this stunt and everyone will forget to ask in 5 months or so "how's yeshiva?"

amother

Jetblack

Wed, May 08 2019, 8:01 pm

leah233 wrote:

That's probably because we don't know about them.

Rappel

Wed, May 08 2019, 10:10 pm

BatyaEsther wrote:

I hope I am wrong but, I don't believe that it will be long before there is an attack- because the are still Jews and not Muslim. Then OUR BOYS will have to go in, endangering themselves to rescue.

Yes, they will. Because these are Jews. That's what a Jewish* army is supposed to do - protect Jews. I hope you don't begrudge them the opportunity to fulfill their purpose.

*Ideally. Please don't nitpick this issue on this thread. My opinions about the relative Jewishness of the current State are clearly stated in the Aliyah thread.

BatyaEsther

Wed, May 08 2019, 11:50 pm

Rappel wrote:

Yes, they will. Because these are Jews. That's what a Jewish* army is supposed to do - protect Jews. I hope you don't begrudge them the opportunity to fulfill their purpose

Because it is a definitely a mitzvah to put yourself and then others in danger.

What do you mean "their purpose"?
What you think, that the brave men and women of the IDF, that their sole goal and purpose in life is to risk their lives? They do it because they have to, (either law or sense of obligation) not because they want to.

Rappel

Thu, May 09 2019, 1:00 am

BatyaEsther] wrote:

What do you mean "their purpose"?
What you think, that the brave men and women of the IDF, that their sole goal and purpose in life is to risk their lives? They do it because they have to, (either law or sense of obligation) not because they want to.

I'm well aware. You do have to volunteer to be put into a combat unit - otherwise, you serve in a support role for the length of your draft.

And for everyone who volunteered to be in a combat unit, I don't think any of them wanted to serve in the complex warren of Hevron - as one mother up-thread can well attest. But neither did they want to serve in the Gush Katif evacuation, nor the destruction of Amona. Having seen the fallout from both sides of the coin, it's a lot easier to emotionally deal with your actions during an operation when serving your nation is clear-cut.

amother

Natural

Thu, May 09 2019, 3:53 am

Rappel wrote:

Rappel, nobody, but nobody, wants to rescue crazy Neturai Karta from a Palestinian neighborhood. And nobody's mother wants their son to be there.

I don't know how Israel can discourage these people. I believe it is illegal for Israelis to go there, right? They should announce they will prosecute and imprison these people if they ever return, including the wives. Maybe that will discourage them from putting our soldiers at risk.