NY is ending religious exceptions!

amother

Ruby

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:03 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

The same gd made the diseases and a cure. And commanded you take appropriate action to prevent hurting your body.

Same religion. Same G-d. Different interpretation of the religion. Hence: personal religious belief.

amother

Ruby

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:04 pm

momsrus wrote:

How very smart. After polio will cv kill and cripple 1000 children, you give the govt right to take action.

I want the govt to take action NOW, so that it doesn’t come to that.

Polio is not nearly as contagious as measles, so if we're talking about a theoretical situation, be honest about it. We've only had 1000 cases of a highly contagious measles and nobody in the US has died yet. So our government can take fast action when need be. Should it Chv come to that.

amother

Pink

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:06 pm

southernbubby wrote:

When you figure out how to cure rabies, please let me know. Also, SSPE, which is caused by measles is currently incurable. Should people avoid it or just figure that Hashem wants their child to have such a tragic death? Who taught you Judaism? They should be put in cherem.

Omg bubby. Where did that come from?

momsrus

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:09 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

The measles outbreak has been going on for 9 months here. If the govt takes 9 months to take action for a polio outbreak there won’t be 1000 dead’s but there will be too many.

I for one don’t want that to happen

If you do, find your own state with your own govt.

amother

Pink

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:10 pm

[quote="amother [ Ruby ]"]Same religion. Same G-d. Different interpretation of the religion. Hence: personal religious

Who’s your rabbi?

You don’t get to translate the Torah to fit your beliefs. Doesn’t work that way

doodlesmom

Fri, Jun 14 2019, 7:15 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Just to clarify the amount of measles cases is at least double those reported. I know of at least 8 unreported cases on my block. Many don't report even if their child is quiet ill.

southernbubby

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:12 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Omg bubby. Where did that come from?

There were people who were either advised or who decided on their own, to deliberately cause their children to contract measles. The deceptive thing about measles is that a child can appear to be recovered from measles only to find out a decade later this virus was lodged in the brain all along and the child will now be reduced to a vegetative state.
So does the Torah really advise such reckless behavior? Are rabbonim really denying that the cure for this disease is prevention?
Or is the idea that vaccines are not necessary because Hashem created cures for these diseases from a non-kosher source?

amother

Pink

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:18 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I realize I wrote cure when I meant prevent. Was right write shabbos and was kinda busy.

amother

Babypink

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:22 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Same religion. Same G-d. Different interpretation of the religion. Hence: personal religious belief.

There's a point when your interpretation changes the religion to a different religion.

WhatFor

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:25 pm

amother [ Babypink ] wrote:

Someone said that no one died from the measles yet. What about the premature baby that they are worried will be blind?

From the World Health Organization

Quote:

Measles is one of the world’s most contagious diseases, with the potential to be extremely severe. In 2017, the most recent year for which estimates are available, it caused close to 110 000 deaths. Even in high-income countries, complications result in hospitalization in up to a quarter of cases, and can lead to lifelong disability, from brain damage and blindness to hearing loss.

Just because the data isn't available yet, doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are far more measles outbreaks in 2019 than 2017 so far, so expect the number of deaths for the same time period to be higher.

Source: https://www.who.int/immunizati.....9/en/

southernbubby

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:27 pm

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

My religion tells me to guard my health very much.
My religion has a G-d Who created perfect human bodies. We don't need man to inject foreign matter and outsmart G-d.

I once learned that according to halacha, a Jew shouldn't be residing in a city without a physician. I doubt that Hashem feels outsmarted by people who vaccinate. Maybe Hashem wanted women to die in childbirth rather than having C-sections and have their bodies cut open but I have not heard of any rabbonim prohibiting them. Sorry Ruby but your religion won't sell to the Jews.

Try a more receptive group.

southernbubby

Sat, Jun 15 2019, 10:35 pm

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

I realize I wrote cure when I meant prevent. Was right write shabbos and was kinda busy.

Sorry, I confused you with a poster here who is spouting X-tian doctrine.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:21 am

[quote="amother [ Pink ]"]

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Same religion. Same G-d. Different interpretation of the religion. Hence: personal religious

Who’s your rabbi?

You don’t get to translate the Torah to fit your beliefs. Doesn’t work that way

I will not name him. He is a very learned talmid chacham and rabbi.

Fox

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 1:54 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

Conservatives believe in individual choice while liberals believe in government-induced action. Now in a case of an outbreak, they can do like Washington State: remove religious exemptions JUST from measles. That would tell us that the goal was to put a halt to the current outbreak.

But once it becomes about mandating ALL vaccines regardless of the current situation, that's a liberal mindset: We don't trust you to make proper decisions regarding your kids, whether it's vaccines, whether it's education or whether it's metzitza b'peh. All spearheaded by liberals and all interfering with individual religious rights.

In theory, I agree with you. We have ample evidence of falling down the slippery slope when it comes to government control.

Ideally, the marketplace of ideas and social pressure would "enforce" near-universal vaccination.

However, we also have the obligation not to put a stumbling block before the blind. In other words, behaving in such a manner that makes government intervention defensible or even desireable is not consistent with conservative or libertarian principles. We have to police ourselves, or someone else will be only too happy to do it for us.

amother

Ruby

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 2:04 am

Fox wrote:

You should have ended your post after the bolded.

Do you say the same regarding all other issues where liberalism espouses governmental control? Legal same-relations marriages which inhibit a baker from sticking to his religion? Gun control which limit my right to protect myself? Laws limiting economic and financial free markets?

amother

Lilac

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:25 am

SixOfWands wrote:

"Jewish" isn't a race. It's a religion. You can be Jewish and Latino. Or black. Or Asian. Or Caucasian. Or Indian.

So Jews who are not religious are not Jewish. Thanks for admitting your own bigotry.

amother

Beige

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:30 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

So Jews who are not religious are not Jewish. Thanks for admitting your own bigotry.

Having a religion and being religious are not one in the same.

See - Lapsed Catholic.

amother

Lilac

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 10:40 am

amother [ Beige ] wrote:

Having a religion and being religious are not one in the same.

See - Lapsed Catholic.

Except that Jews are a separate race as defined by the United States Supreme Court as well as our history and the fact that we are a nation, not a religion.

Jews in the U.S. were not included in the KKK (and were denied entry to the U.S. as well as colleges) because we are Jewish and are not recognized as a "people of color" because we are "white" (and we are still not included in affirmative action programs despite a history of discrimination against us). This hypocrisy is just a pretext for discrimination against Jews, most of whom are not religious at all. But that is our "Jew privilege". Sad.

https://supreme.justia.com/cas...../615/

https://blogs.timesofisrael.co.....icle/

southernbubby

Sun, Jun 16 2019, 11:00 am

amother [ Ruby ] wrote:

The government has to walk a fine line between advocating for the individual and society at large. I agree that a person should not have to use his creative expression in a way that violates his beliefs but at the same time, we can't allow minority groups to be turned into second class citizens so we have to create legal ways to protect both entities.

Do you feel that any individual has the right to terrorize society by allowing that person access to any firearms that he chooses? Is his right to a high velocity hunting rifle more important than my right to safely attend synagogue?