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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
OP
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 Tue, Jul 30 2019, 1:45 am
im asking seriously.
with the cost of living today- it doesnt seem possible to have a normal work life balance and easily pay full tuition.
im really not sure what is expeccted of people today.
if someone postst that they dont pay full tuition- they are attacked and torn to shreds.
I dont exactly want to be posting in a few years from now- how my dh is out crazy hours and I barely see him all week . that doesnt soudn like the correct lifestyle either.
before you respond and bash me that I am not taking tuition seriously- please keep the following in mind.
I grew up in homes that paying full tuition was absolute top priority. my parents always paid full tuition. yet we went without a LOT of things that most of our classmates ( who were mostly getting tuition breaks) the type of things that are considered neccessities on ima.
we are not yet paying tuition for a few years- what exactly is the correct approach to plan life?
these seem to be the options I can think of:
1) only go into a feild/jobs intense and well paying enough to realistically be able to afford full tuition.
2) go into less intense jobs and be prepared that we may have to ask for tuition break and be prepared to spend our life eating bread and water and nothing else-( otherwise we are not entitled to break)
3) try to earn enough to pay full tuition and if we have to ask for a break. live simply yet not feeling like we have to justify every penny.
im asking seriously- what is the correct approach in your opinion?
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amother
Pink
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 1:48 am
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IME the schools are pretty reasonable. The tuition committee is comprised of people with families, and they understand both general concerns and individual circumstances.
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amother
Cerulean
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 1:50 am
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Honestly, if you are going to be having lots of children and paying lots of tuition, then the appropriate hishtadlus is to go into a field that pays well enough to support the life you want to have.
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amother
Silver
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 1:59 am
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Dh and I both work full time. Both jobs are not high paying. We pull in around 110k a yr. we live in the five towns with a very high cost of living. Full tuition is between 10-16k at our kids schools. We are paying around 5k a head. I think tuition committees are generally pretty reasonable.
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amother
Slateblue
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 5:50 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | im asking seriously.
with the cost of living today- it doesnt seem possible to have a normal work life balance and easily pay full tuition.
im really not sure what is expeccted of people today.
if someone postst that they dont pay full tuition- they are attacked and torn to shreds.
I dont exactly want to be posting in a few years from now- how my dh is out crazy hours and I barely see him all week . that doesnt soudn like the correct lifestyle either.
before you respond and bash me that I am not taking tuition seriously- please keep the following in mind.
I grew up in homes that paying full tuition was absolute top priority. my parents always paid full tuition. yet we went without a LOT of things that most of our classmates ( who were mostly getting tuition breaks) the type of things that are considered neccessities on ima.
we are not yet paying tuition for a few years- what exactly is the correct approach to plan life?
these seem to be the options I can think of:
1) only go into a feild/jobs intense and well paying enough to realistically be able to afford full tuition.
2) go into less intense jobs and be prepared that we may have to ask for tuition break and be prepared to spend our life eating bread and water and nothing else-( otherwise we are not entitled to break)
3) try to earn enough to pay full tuition and if we have to ask for a break. live simply yet not feeling like we have to justify every penny.
im asking seriously- what is the correct approach in your opinion? |
Get a good education. Work hard, Aim to make a good living.
Don’t buy a home that’s unaffordable.
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amother
Khaki
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:04 am
| amother [ Silver ] wrote: | | Dh and I both work full time. Both jobs are not high paying. We pull in around 110k a yr. we live in the five towns with a very high cost of living. Full tuition is between 10-16k at our kids schools. We are paying around 5k a head. I think tuition committees are generally pretty reasonable. |
That's amazing. I pay more then that in a chassidish school and my kids are getting a subpar education.
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Raisin
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:12 am
| amother [ Cerulean ] wrote: | | Honestly, if you are going to be having lots of children and paying lots of tuition, then the appropriate hishtadlus is to go into a field that pays well enough to support the life you want to have. |
One way to have sub par teachers and Rabbis. Push everyone to become lawyers and bankers.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:15 am
in my dh's ideal world teachers will be paid well and only the best will be hired. There will be no teacher discounts, perks etc... everyone else will go into other well paying jobs to pay for these teachers 
but now back to reality...
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southernbubby
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:25 am
We raised our kids in places where the cost of living was cheaper than places like 5 towns.
It probably depends on the make up of the parent body because if many are wealthy, they might be okay with some people paying less due to lack of ability to pay.
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aquad
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:36 am
| Raisin wrote: | | One way to have sub par teachers and Rabbis. Push everyone to become lawyers and bankers. |
Doesn't work that way in Modern Orthodox schools. The teachers all had other options, and actively decided to go into education because they love it. (With the exception of women who want mommy friendly jobs.) Most teachers have either Masters degrees or, if men, smicha.
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amother
Fuchsia
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:40 am
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aquad- I've heard it's an issue to find MO rebbeim. They'll get rebbeim that are more "to the right". Someone supposedly complained to YU that they aren't turning out enough rebbeim. The response was- do you want your sons to be rebbeim? these boys are trained to go in to high paying professions, not rabbanus...
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amother
Cerulean
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:48 am
| Raisin wrote: | | One way to have sub par teachers and Rabbis. Push everyone to become lawyers and bankers. |
Yes, it's a problem. MO schools have trouble finding appropriate teachers, but because of that, salaries are pretty high. So if both husband and wife work, it's doable.
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amother
Gold
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:54 am
On an individual level, I think that two people working fulltime are doing a sufficient amount that they can ask for tuition breaks on whatever they can't afford to pay.
On a communal level, it should be obvious that a good portion of people, perhaps more than half, simply won't be able to earn enough to pay full tuition for 4-10 kids, and therefore those who are capable of high earnings will have to exercise that ability in order for the community to be sustainable. Do they have to exercise it to the max? Maybe not. But if people capable of earning $500K a year (and I think only a small minority of people are) routinely choose to become dental hygienists for quality of life and earn $50K a year, that will leave the community underfunded.
Apart from a few exceptional careers like pro sports, earning a top 10% income takes a certain combination of some minimum intelligence, social abilities, executive functioning, mental health, and so on. It's not just a matter of working harder or being willing to sacrifice work life balance.
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amother
Violet
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:55 am
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Private school teachers start around $65k and science and math teachers with experience can easily make upwards of $150k annually. The problem is that most frum schools cannot really offer the private school education because they cannot be as selective about students and need to cater to families who cannot afford it hence tuition breaks and not a large donor base. My colleagues childrens school costs upwards of $35-40k annually and less than 10% of people get scholarships, but her kids are getting a superior education. In many ways, I'd rather send my kids to a school like that and hope they stay frum by example..
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amother
Fuchsia
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 8:57 am
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why is it those people's problem? someone once said that if a lawyer decides to stay home they get more flack then someone who was always a SAHM. why is the second one's quality of life important but not the first? I think that's a dangerous game to play
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simcha2
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:02 am
| amother [ Gold ] wrote: | On an individual level, I think that two people working fulltime are doing a sufficient amount that they can ask for tuition breaks on whatever they can't afford to pay.
On a communal level, it should be obvious that a good portion of people, perhaps more than half, simply won't be able to earn enough to pay full tuition for 4-10 kids, and therefore those who are capable of high earnings will have to exercise that ability in order for the community to be sustainable. Do they have to exercise it to the max? Maybe not. But if people capable of earning $500K a year (and I think only a small minority of people are) routinely choose to become dental hygienists for quality of life and earn $50K a year, that will leave the community underfunded.
Apart from a few exceptional careers like pro sports, earning a top 10% income takes a certain combination of some minimum intelligence, social abilities, executive functioning, mental health, and so on. It's not just a matter of working harder or being willing to sacrifice work life balance. |
You're right. But it is also frequently an some choice that comes with several difficult downsides. So dh left a career he loved because his income didn't cover our costs. (We don't live extravagantly, used cars etc.) But in the mo world, my current tuition bill is over $60,000 (and that is with only one high schooler). He could have stayed in his previous career, and we'd have had to have taken a tuition reduction (read, have others cover our bills). For us, that's not an option.
In my world view, there are certain fixed costs, rent etc. And tuition is one of them. Meaning that your other choices should reflect a need to pay that. That might mean a smaller house, more hours working, less vacations etc. But asking someone to cover your fixed costs when you could pay them yourselves by reducing discretionary spending takes a certain worldview that to me is problematic.
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amother
Babypink
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:13 am
| amother [ Violet ] wrote: | | Private school teachers start around $65k and science and math teachers with experience can easily make upwards of $150k annually. The problem is that most frum schools cannot really offer the private school education because they cannot be as selective about students and need to cater to families who cannot afford it hence tuition breaks and not a large donor base. My colleagues childrens school costs upwards of $35-40k annually and less than 10% of people get scholarships, but her kids are getting a superior education. In many ways, I'd rather send my kids to a school like that and hope they stay frum by example.. |
But then they wouldn't be getting a Jewish education
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amother
Azure
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:17 am
I was just talking with someone from Cleveland last night. Since there are now state subsidies for tuition they have gotten a big influx of new people! I believe this is true in Cincinatti as well (makes sense, they're both in Ohio!) and Indiana.
These are some of the options to be considered!
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amother
Violet
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:26 am
| amother [ Babypink ] wrote: | | But then they wouldn't be getting a Jewish education |
I personally don't care about that because I think the entire concept is some new, American one. Most of your Jewish education comes from your home. If you want a separate, intensive shiur after school or on the weekends for boys to learn gemara, then I'd pay extra for that. I frankly don't see what is so special about the Jewish education being taught, anyways. You could easily cram it into an hour per day over less than an entire school career. It's a very big nisayon for me to send my children to frum schools.
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amother
Chocolate
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Tue, Jul 30 2019, 9:26 am
Either get a wellpaying job
Live in a community where housing isn't that expensive
Don't have more kids than you can afford
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