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Forum
-> Judaism
-> Halachic Questions and Discussions
imasoftov
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Sun, Sep 01 2019, 6:32 pm
Metukah wrote: | Her surname in itself tells you what chassidus she is. |
It doesn't tell me. Whether it tells Lawngreen or not, I can't say.
The Wikipedia article about the case, Adass Israel School relations abuse scandal says "The Adass Israel community is an Hasidic Jewish group in Melbourne that traces its origins to a split in the Elwood Shule in the early 1940s; some of its early members were boys and men who had been sent to Australia by the British on the infamous Dunera in 1941. The community's synagogue is in Ripponlea, and its school and chevra kadisha (Jewish funeral society) are located in nearby Elsternwick." I knew that Leifer had been principal of the principal of the Adass Israel girls’ school but I hadn't heard that there was an Adass Israel community, had no idea what group, if any, the school was affiliated with, and I'm still not sure if "Adass Yisroel" is the name of a chassidut, the name of the Australian branch of some other chassidut, or what.
But can someone really tell from a person's name what chassidut they belong to? Even if there's a name that is associated with a particular chassidut, or even is the name of the rebbe, don't people sometimes switch affiliation? And don't family names sometimes get changed?
I also found a wiki article about R Mordechai Leifer that says "Today, there are close to 100 Grand Rebbes who claim descent from Rebbe Mordechai of Nadvorna". There was no list of those 100 rebbes and perhaps some are descended maternally so not all of them are named Leifer.
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imasoftov
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Sun, Sep 01 2019, 7:17 pm
The subject, "Jewish S-x Offender Deported to Arab Yemen", isn't entirely accurate. The title of the article in the OP is "Israel to deport Jewish convict to Yemen" and includes "Last week, a judge ordered the Interior Ministry, which was seeking Alhadad’s deportation to Yemen, to detail how it intended to deport him to a country with which Israel has no diplomatic relations."
"
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amother
Scarlet
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Sun, Sep 01 2019, 7:37 pm
Let's be honest here.
If he were a frum ashkenaz chassidishe man, this wouldn't have happened.
I'm chassidishe if it matters
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Genius
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Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:06 pm
amother [ Scarlet ] wrote: | Let's be honest here.
If he were a frum ashkenaz chassidishe man, this wouldn't have happened.
I'm chassidishe if it matters |
I don't think frum ashkenaz chassidishe can be deported to yemen bc it's not their land of origin. The comparison doesn't apply.
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amother
Scarlet
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Sun, Sep 01 2019, 8:23 pm
genius wrote: | I don't think frum ashkenaz chassidishe can be deported to yemen bc it's not their land of origin. The comparison doesn't apply. |
That's not the point
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Raisin
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 5:41 am
genius wrote: | I don't think frum ashkenaz chassidishe can be deported to yemen bc it's not their land of origin. The comparison doesn't apply. |
Someboddy pointed out earlier an ashkenazic mafia guy was deported back to the USA after fleeing to Israel. Do frum chasidishe people get better treatment by the secular court system in Israel? Possibly they have better ability to fundraise for lawyers, like Mrs Leifer.
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amother
Scarlet
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 5:57 am
Raisin wrote: | Someboddy pointed out earlier an ashkenazic mafia guy was deported back to the USA after fleeing to Israel. Do frum chasidishe people get better treatment by the secular court system in Israel? Possibly they have better ability to fundraise for lawyers, like Mrs Leifer. |
We have a better support system.
For better or for worse.
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rzab
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 7:19 am
Israel is making a strong effort to make sure that it doesn't become a place of refuge for Jewish criminals. One downside of the law of return is that many criminals, specifically relations offenders know that they can just make aliyah. I don't know so many specifics, but I know as one example, the law has changed in the last year regarding background checks for people who come to Israel and then make aliyah from within the country. We're not there yet, but it's progress.
Regarding this case, it's so much more complicated bc Israel would basically be deporting him back to an enemy state (which is also complicated. Who said Yemen is willing to take him?) personally, I don't like any of the options. I'm not comfortable sending a jew to Yemen. I'm not comfortable allowing a predetor to roam free. I'm not comfortable with my tax dollars going to keeping him in jail.
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Ruchel
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 7:25 am
Yeah well, ""people"" like that don't deserve the air to breathe
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notshanarishona
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 8:19 am
I would give him a choice of being deported or life in jail.
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ora_43
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 8:30 am
Raisin wrote: | Wow. I also did not know the law of return did not apply if you committed a crime. |
It does still apply to most criminals, but not to criminals who are considered a threat to public safety.
Quote: | Why is that woman who molested girls in a school in Australia (can't recall name) not deported back there to face trail? Was she born in Israel? I don't think the laws of Israel should be different for those born there or not, or because one didn't make aliya officially. |
1. This guy isn't being deported to stand trial, he's being kicked out for overstaying his visa. Malka Leifer was already a citizen by the time she was formally charged with a crime, so the same tactic won't work in her case.
2. She should be deported, but she's managed to delay deportation by claiming mental illness. (she has powerful people helping her, unfortunately)
3. He hasn't been deported, yet, either. Like Leifer, he's still holding things up in court. It's not clear if he'll ever actually be deported, because how would that even work? I'd put better odds on her ultimately being kicked out, than him (but here's hoping it'll happen to both of them).
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amother
Peach
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 9:49 am
imasoftov wrote: | It doesn't tell me. Whether it tells Lawngreen or not, I can't say.
The Wikipedia article about the case, Adass Israel School relations abuse scandal says "The Adass Israel community is an Hasidic Jewish group in Melbourne that traces its origins to a split in the Elwood Shule in the early 1940s; some of its early members were boys and men who had been sent to Australia by the British on the infamous Dunera in 1941. The community's synagogue is in Ripponlea, and its school and chevra kadisha (Jewish funeral society) are located in nearby Elsternwick." I knew that Leifer had been principal of the principal of the Adass Israel girls’ school but I hadn't heard that there was an Adass Israel community, had no idea what group, if any, the school was affiliated with, and I'm still not sure if "Adass Yisroel" is the name of a chassidut, the name of the Australian branch of some other chassidut, or what.
But can someone really tell from a person's name what chassidut they belong to? Even if there's a name that is associated with a particular chassidut, or even is the name of the rebbe, don't people sometimes switch affiliation? And don't family names sometimes get changed?
I also found a wiki article about R Mordechai Leifer that says "Today, there are close to 100 Grand Rebbes who claim descent from Rebbe Mordechai of Nadvorna". There was no list of those 100 rebbes and perhaps some are descended maternally so not all of them are named Leifer. |
The Adass community contains members of different chassiduses including Ger and also people you would consider “heimish”. The community was not big enough to support multiple single chassidusses.
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Sep 02 2019, 11:52 am
imasinger wrote: | Sx offenders are motivated by more than arousal, so castration might not convince me that this man is now safe.
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Well, it's still a darn good start.
Going off topic here: I saw a documentary about zex offenders in jail. This one guy was so obsessed with boys, that he didn't even want to be considered for parole. He said that images taunted him day and night, and he never got any rest from it. He didn't want to hurt anyone, but it was like an OCD compulsion or something. He tried hormonal treatments, but they kept wearing off too fast, and it was dangerous to give him the shots more often. He finally convinced the warden to let him volunteer for surgery.
He said that within 24 hours he was already feeling more normal and could relax, and at the end of the week he had no compulsions or fantasies whatsoever. Not only that, he didn't have any zexual thoughts or desires at all. It was like that part of his brain went numb, once the supply of testosterone and androgen was cut off.
He gained a lot of weight, and developed osteoporosis, but he said it was worth it just to have peace of mind. He'll probably never get paroled, but that's beside the point. He just wanted the compulsions to stop.
It leads to some very interesting ideas for further study.
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mamsegula
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Wed, Sep 04 2019, 2:15 pm
Rappel wrote: | I see this as potentially being an act of mesirah, though I'm not baki on the issue.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesirah
Where's Imasoftov when you need her? This is her element. |
So halachically, pikuach nefesh doche hacol. That's just what it is. Is his life really in danger bak in Yemen? Possibly, though I'm sure that the judge took that into consideration.
Another point, I don't think Israel usually extradites Jews to other countries.
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nchr
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Wed, Sep 04 2019, 2:23 pm
genius wrote: | I don't think frum ashkenaz chassidishe can be deported to yemen bc it's not their land of origin. The comparison doesn't apply. |
She's referring to white privilege.
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amother
Hotpink
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Wed, Sep 04 2019, 3:27 pm
I know of 3 Zex offenders from Brooklyn who ran away to Israel, and are now walking the streets of Israel freely. Whats with them?
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imasoftov
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Wed, Sep 04 2019, 4:57 pm
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote: | I know of 3 Zex offenders from Brooklyn who ran away to Israel, and are now walking the streets of Israel freely. Whats with them? |
Did victims file charges in the US? Was extradition requested?
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amother
Hotpink
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Wed, Sep 04 2019, 5:04 pm
imasoftov wrote: | Did victims file charges in the US? Was extradition requested? |
One is very famous (was a child therapist), and many want him extradited. For sure 2 out of the 3 I know had people who want them extradited (second was either a social worker or a Bar Mitzvah teacher, I cant recall).
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imasoftov
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Thu, Sep 05 2019, 2:32 am
amother [ Hotpink ] wrote: | One is very famous (was a child therapist), and many want him extradited. For sure 2 out of the 3 I know had people who want them extradited (second was either a social worker or a Bar Mitzvah teacher, I cant recall). |
Is anyone trying to get them extradited?
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amother
Hotpink
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Thu, Sep 05 2019, 10:53 am
imasoftov wrote: | Is anyone trying to get them extradited? |
I dont know whats happening today, but 2 of the 3 had MANY victims who were trying hard to get them extradited.
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