SEIT and P3 | Imamother

amother

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 6:36 pm

How much does SEIT pay per hour through an agency?
Is it hard to get a seit job?

How much does P3 pay per hour through an agency, for groups? average/range

Does anyone know the difference between what a provider can do when they have internship certification versus transitional b certification? can the provider do both SEIT and P3 with either of those certifications?

Finally, is it worth it for an older mother to take out $20,000+ in loans to get a special ed degree? with the hope of getting P3 jobs and paying it back plus earning a living.

and how doable is it to take the coursework while being pregnant and mothering? is it likely to be worth it in the end?

Interested in hearing your input.

Thank you

mra01385

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 8:05 pm

No it is not worth to take out $20000 loans to get special ed degree and NYS certified. Based on previous experience even though the rate per hour for seit and p3 can be high it is very very hard to get cases through agencies and cannot be relied upon for a steady parnassah because the special Ed field is flooded. Many times the people that get cases are those that have been with the agency for a while and those that are friends with staff members and have good connections. Seit/p3 cases are very unsteady and you only get paid for the days that you are working with the student. In order to do seit/p3 you need to have a steady job on the side as well.
In order to make it worth it to go for special ed degree is if you are willing to work in a school as a teacher or special ed teacher and get steady salary. The best would be to work in public school.
Also, the NYS teacher certification tests are very hard to pass and you have to make a video of yourself giving a model lesson as well. Please google NYS teaching requirements for al the info. It will also be very hard to do all the studying and required coursework with babies and being pregnant. So you would need help with your babies and be very committed to finishing all the coursework. You should only do this if you are very passionate to be a teacher and not doing it because of the money. You should not take out 20000 in loans especially if you have a family, because it will be very hard to pay it back even if you get salaried position. The only way you can really make good money with an education degree is if you work in public school, but that is also very hard to get into. I think you should look into other careers as well, and see what else interests you. Please pm me if you want more info about my experiences of having special ed degree.

What do you currently do?

Hatzlacha.

amother

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 9:06 pm

mra01385 wrote:

Thank you for your feedback. I'm trying to figure out how to get more earning potential. as an older mother.
is any degree worth it? most other degrees (not special ed) cost more money, and take longer, require more hours of internship, which are unpaid hours of internship
for example, I was looking into a social work degree, (I'd love to help people as a social worker, but, the degree is double the money, double the fieldwork hours, the fieldwork is all unpaid, and you can't get certified or paid as a social worker until after completing hundreds of hours of internship even after the degree.
(special ed you can get a temporary certification while you are still in the program, and can get paid internship hours)
so is there any degree that's worth the time and money? how do I increase my earning potential and find an enjoyable, profitable career?

seeker

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 9:47 pm

I'm active in the field and I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above. Even working very part time and with all the days off and everything, you can make 20k in a year pretty easily (also look into possible grants for older/mothers returning to school.)

I know of numerous SEIT agencies looking to hire right now. You may not get your top pick of location and schedule but you won't be jobless either. It's common to have fewer cases at the beginning of the school year and then suddenly have many offers in January, so if you are willing to work harder starting in January then you can make up for the "dry" months, but if you're not picky about locations and timing then you should be able to get at least some work earlier. You can also sometimes pick up sub work which is a good way to get to know schools and agencies and they will like you because you're helping them in a pinch.

Back to OP questions:
SEIT per hour - as a beginner you could expect $55, significantly more if you're bilingual or can take cases that are harder to fill (less popular locations, e.g.), and with some room for growth over time.
Is it hard - see above.
P3 per hour - I have never yet seen an agency offer that was worth looking at, despite my strong credentials. Independent through DOE rate is $41 for individual, 62+ for groups depending on size of group, and you'll need to pay self employment tax.
There is also what's called enhanced rate which is not common but pays significantly better, usually for a child with more specialized needs (e.g. ABA or reading specialist)

Plenty of people have done coursework while pregnant/mothering (gee, when you first said "older mother" I had jumped to the conclusion that you're post-childbearing but anyway...) You might want to consider going to TTI where they are familiar with that life. I haven't been there myself so I don't know if that makes them more forgiving or not. One thing you definitely want to find out is whether/what fieldwork will be needed - will you need to do student teaching, can your own job work for that, etc.

Internship vs transitional - in general, the only requirement is certification as opposed to no certification. You'll want to call a couple of agencies just to confirm that's accurate. Enhanced rate will almost definitely not take anything less than full professional certification but anyway the chances of getting enhanced rate were going to be low in the first place.

Worth it - depends on personal variables that nobody else can possibly give you on one foot. How much is the loan going to impact you? How much do you need the extra income, and how much income do you need, and how fast? What are your other options? Etc.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 10:21 pm

Hi I did this but did it without taking out a loan (had the money saved up)

Seit agencies pay around $60 an hour starting. It's hard to get a job - especially at first (it does get easier after an agency gets to know you and/or you work in a school, and they like and request you) . The more flexible you are the easier it will be though (ex travel far out, work in a non-Jewish school, travel to a few locations and ect...) The later on in the school year it gets, the easier it is to get a job (other providers are filled up then). So if you graduate say the summer time, keep in mind it can likely take you till Jan-Feb to find a job.

As far as doing it with kids... Which program are you taking? How long will it be? Will you be working at the same time? I did it with three little kids, expecting my fourth and working part-time. I found it very doable. But my dh did help alot, and in general I'm very relaxed about things (easy suppers, ok if things wait for the next day to get cleaned if I had a lot of hw...) But you could be doing a harder program or find schoolwork harder than me and ect....Also my kids where little and in bed by 7:30 so I had the nights to do work, if your kids are older it may be harder to find the time.

mra01385

Tue, Dec 31 2019, 11:54 pm

I just want to add to everyone’s comments that in order to qualify for the professional license after the initial license you need to work the equivalent of 3 yrs of full time teaching over a 5 year period. My nys teacher certification expired because I did not end up meeting the required teaching requirement within the first 5 years of getting the initial license. If your nys teacher requirements expire you can no longer work as a seit or p3 even with the masters degree. Most schools don’t tell you about these requirements. They only tell you how to obtain the initial license.
Also, when you work for an agency you are considered as self employed on contract and you need to deduct your own income taxes with a 1099. Please keep in mind that being seit or teacher requires at home paper work and preparation as well.
Besides special ed, you can look into the speech therapy field, medical billing which is not so much schooling, graphic design, bookkeeping/ accounting. Depends what you like to do.
Due to life circumstances and not being able to get seit/p3 cases I worked for a very short term as a seit and I was a preschool teacher for one year. After that I only worked as classroom assistants as I do not want responsibility of running a classroom and having pressure to prepare every night. Now I currently work as assistant librarian in a local girls school. I do have Wilson certification if you know of anyone who could use it.

seeker

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 1:04 am

WADR the certification requirements are right there on the TEACH website where you need to apply and where anyone thinking of applying should certainly check. There is also a 2-year extension of the 5 years that's not hard to get. What's a drop harder to figure out is how to add up your hours to make 3 years if you don't work full time, but even that there are sooooo many people who have been there and done that.

If specifically looking to work in a "therapist" type mode as an independent provider of SEIT/P3 and you have no interest in classroom teaching, speech therapist is far better (more in demand, higher rate, more 1:1 setup so you can actually maximize the time with the student to do what you want to do for them) but there are more prerequisites for master's programs, plus the coursework and internship I believe are longer and harder. So if you love this type of work but you can't make it through therapist training, SEIT/P3 is a decent compromise.

seeker

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 1:09 am

Oh, one more thing you'd better know - SEIT and P3 are specifically New York things. Various other states have their own versions, while some don't have it at all. Early Intervention is pretty universal, though again the details of how it's set up will vary by state. And of course classroom teachers are needed everywhere (demand varies by district but overall wherever you go you are likely to be near someplace that wants teachers.) Also, if you move to a different state, you will most likely need to apply for separate certification in that state, and the requirements vary - in some places your NY degree/certification is all they need while in other places you may need additional tests or occasionally even coursework. And if you move to a different country, all bets are off, you can at best use your NY credentials to advertise yourself as a private tutor because they won't be worth anything official.

mra01385

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 10:47 am

To seeker, the requirements of 3 yrs of teaching has to be of being an ACTUAL teacher and not classroom assistant. I’ve heard of many people that are dishonest and use assistant hours to meet some of the requirements, which is not fair and not right at all. If assistant hours were allowed I would have had my professional license a long time ago. I’m a very honest person and therefore would not cheat like that even if it means that I cannot be certified anymore. I am annoyed that people cheat to meet their requirements, and therefore are able to obtain their professional license, but I realize parnassah is from HaShem and HaShem has his ways of providing.

seeker

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 11:07 am

I don't know of any cheaters, personally. The requirement is very clear. I fulfilled it mostly with P3 and SEIT, which counts as full teaching. All my colleagues filled the requirement with either classroom teaching or P3/SEIT as well. I'm sorry that your career wasn't straightforward and I appreciate your contributing your perspective to help OP and others make well-rounded decisions. I'm just balancing out the overwhelming negativity you seem to feel, because this is a career that works fine for many people. Has its limitations but as discussed above the entry requirements and time are easier than therapy fields with higher earning potential.

mra01385

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 11:37 am

Seeker, How many hrs a day did you work as seit/p3? Also, I’m sorry I sound so negative, but I just had a very negative experience with the whole seit/p3 system. The only time I got cases was when I finishing up my masters and was working toward my initial certification. Even then it was hard to get cases. Right after I graduated I got married and moved to Florida for a couple yrs so I couldn’t continue doing seit/p3 there. I did teach pre-k there in the afternoons, and I got Florida state certified. When I came back to ny I went on an interview for an agency that really made me cry saying that I was under qualified and the only seit jobs available were very low functioning children. I also called many many agencies who always told me they have nothing available. There was one agency that was a bit promising but they kept giving me the run around telling to call back call back til eventually I gave up on them. I also never had any luck with getting p3 either. This is why I did the Wilson certification hoping to get some private tutoring, but I still haven’t gotten anywhere. I’m starting to think that I made a wrong career choice and thinking of going into something else, but who says I will get anywhere in a different field and I really like tutoring in reading. Maybe you can pm me some tips. Maybe I can talk to you on the phone? I’m sorry if I’m getting out all my frustrations that I experienced with the special ed field.

seeker

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 11:58 am

My hours varied wildly. It's hard on the nerves but keeps you praying and BH it usually evens out over time, I've learned how to budget based on yearly expectations rather than month to month.

What you're saying makes sense depending on when you first got certified. There was a period of time when it was very hard to get SEIT cases. I'd estimate maybe 7-9 years ago? I was thinking at that point that I'd better start looking harder for classroom teaching jobs, though my P3 cases were enough for the time being.

My assumption is that teaching in a different state should count toward required experience but not sure what it would take to make that happen and I guess it was long enough ago that it's moot Sad

Obnoxious interviewer sounds like an aberration. Ugh. More common is the experience of calling agencies and being told nothing available. The way it works is that cases trickle in on a rolling basis so you basically need to get an application on file with agencies and then keep checking in so you're fresh in their mind when something comes up. It's one of those things where once you're in, you're in, but it's annoying to be the newcomer. IME the best way to get "in" is to be willing to take cases at times and places that others don't want, and then they kind of feel like they owe you one because you were there for them when they needed. This could be as simple as being an emergency substitute for someone who has to leave when other people's schedules are already full, or it could be traveling to a neighborhood that's off the beaten path. For P3, the most in-demand time that providers never want is after school. There are also the underpaying agencies but I resent their existence and business model so it's not fair for me to comment...

Private tutoring is a lot harder to get nowadays because everyone gets P3. However, Wilson should be an edge. Try seeing if you can get someone to recommend you in wealthier neighborhoods. There are a lot of people there who don't want their kids to have an IEP because they're afraid of stigma or something, and they will pay well privately for tutors to help their kids overachieve. I'm not sure how exactly people build a reputation in these communities, but that's where the business is, and they all talk to each other so if you get one client very happy with a warm relationship then more are likely to follow. But again, they will want mostly the after-school hours.

mra01385

Wed, Jan 01 2020, 8:49 pm

Seeker, thanks for your understanding of my situation and for your suggestions. Yes, when I first started out doing seit work around 11 1/2 yrs ago when I finishing up my masters degree I was offered a very hard case for a couple of weeks with the promise that they would give me cases for the summer months, and the agency did keep their word, but I didn’t end up getting cases after the summer because I was already engaged and knew I would be moving to Florida. The funny part was that the agency kept offering me cases when I was in Florida, but when I moved back to ny about 8 1/2 yrs ago they said there was nothing available, and since then I was never able to get a seit case or a p3 case. This is why my certification expired and I even got the extension. Now I don’t feel it’s worth it to try and get it back because it involves retaking tests and more course work and who is to say I will get p3 cases.

Also, with tutoring I advertised in the local school newsletters including with the school I work in but I haven’t gotten any students yet. My principal says she had no one for me either, and she doesn’t let me tell the teachers either. I’m guessing cuz there is a protocol the teachers have to follow if a child needs tutoring or resource room. This is why I’m very frustrated because I have this education degree but I can’t use it.

I was thinking of changing careers to medical billing but I’m not sure how I much I will enjoy it, and I don’t know if I can work part time with that.

Amelia Bedelia

Fri, Jan 03 2020, 8:21 am

mra01385 wrote:

I agree. The field is overflooded and I gave up when it was difficult to get SEIT cases and I got fed up with begging for work. The SEIT rate also went down significantly over the last few years.
I really don't think it's a good idea to take a loan. Can you qualify for any scholarships or financial aid?

The good news is that cases are more readily available these days, and especially if you're willing to do P3.

amother

Fri, Jan 03 2020, 8:35 am

Thank you everyone for your comments!

Is it really hard to pass the nys certification exams?? Is it easier on any level? (B-2 or 1-6?)

How much does P3 pay per hour through an agency, for groups? average/range

Do P3's need to work every day, or could it be twice a week, in the afternoons?
What is the schedule typically like for P3?
can it be done, for example, two or three days a week, from 11am to 4pm?

Do SEIT's generally work with kids with behavioral issues?
or is it easy to get a job with a kid that doesn't have behavioral issues?
SEIT is every day?
You mentioned starting salary for SEIT, but it goes up...
How high do the SEIT jobs pay, average range?

mom24.7

Fri, Jan 03 2020, 8:41 am

This is very interesting to me. True, I live in Brooklyn but every person I know that is willing to invest themselves got a full caseload of seit or Pendancy at the beginning of the year. I do know one person that was extremely specific with what type of cases and location that only got filled halfway (10 hrs a week). I am graduated three years and have my initial and got full caseloads starting with my transb. Post rate ranging from 65-72. Again this is in Brooklyn but im extremely surprised to hear ppl are having a hard time getting cases here.

mom24.7

Fri, Jan 03 2020, 8:45 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Thank you everyone for your comments!

Is it really hard to pass the nys certification exams?? Is it easier on any level? (B-2 or 1-6?)
B-2 is easier since the multi subject is easier material.

How much does P3 pay per hour through an agency, for groups? average/range
Regular p3 41.50 group of 2 is 62 range etc.

Do P3's need to work every day, or could it be twice a week, in the afternoons?
Depends what the mandate is and what the school wants. Usually older students want after school.
What is the schedule typically like for P3?
can it be done, for example, two or three days a week, from 11am to 4pm?
It can but many parents want at least 3xs a week for less time than doing double sessions.

Do SEIT's generally work with kids with behavioral issues?
Some and some
or is it easy to get a job with a kid that doesn't have behavioral issues?
SEIT is every day? If it's 5 or more hours then it's every day.

You mentioned starting salary for SEIT, but it goes up...
How high do the SEIT jobs pay, average range?

Depends if you have your bilingual extension
the rate can go up to 75....