Can someone clue me in? WHAT CHANGED???

Mama Bear

Tue, May 26 2020, 12:46 am

Seriously, to all the pro-lockdown-forever people, what WILL it take for the state-of-emergency-hibernation-in-your-brain to be officially over?
There there isnt one single case diagnosed in all of NY? all of the US? all of the universe?
For hizzoner the guv or hizmajestee the prez or hizmeshugener the fauci to declare the pandemic over?
There's no clear cut demarcation for covid-19 to be declared over. It's not going away anytime soon.
But the danger is over. yes, we can't return to full normalcy or to willy-nilly I-dont-care-itis, but we can come out of our hideyholes now and breathe some fresh air. And stand near anotehr human being, bemasked and begloved and beribboned and berobed, and not quake in fear.
Have a good night!

silverlining3

Tue, May 26 2020, 12:57 am

Mama Bear wrote:

Hahaha
Last impression lasts. Good night
Might dream about his majesty and mashuginar

Last edited by silverlining3 on Tue, May 26 2020, 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Lilac

Tue, May 26 2020, 12:57 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

I was so upset to read that Hatzala discusses diagnoses that I contacted them. How can I possibly use or support a service where if you see them at my house, you’re going to know my medical issues because their people blab to others.

Your response is so bizarre that I will just comment, that you should use your intuition and call 911, should you ever have a medical emergency.

amother

Lemon

Tue, May 26 2020, 1:27 am

Mama Bear wrote:

Not a single person has ever suggested that pause —-there’s no lockdown except in the fantasies of the right wing — last forever.

You can get out of your hidey hole and breathe fresh air right now. NYC parks are open, as are state parks. If you’re hiding in a fetid apartment, it’s because you made the decision to do so, not because of any government order.

You can stand near another person, wearing a mask, for a brief chat. Or take a walk together. Or you can stand 6 feet apart and rip off your masks.

If you choose to quake in fear, it’s because you want to, not because you’ve been told to.

I walk 1 to 3 miles every single day. In NYC. While social distancing. Yesterday, I went to a state park where families were walking, biking, playing ball, and picnicking. All while distancing.

Stop with the straw men. It’s no less ridiculous than if I accused you of secretly wanting all Americans to die because you don’t want to wait until NYC has sufficient contact tracers (it will meet the other requirements in days most likely).

amother

Ivory

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:01 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Just a few weeks ago, people were treating each other as if they had the plague. Crossing the street when someone walks by, not eating food made outside your own house, ppl dying alone, ppl not saying kaddish in shul, not getting taharos, crazy situations of ppl making pesach alone. All in the name of sakanas nefashos.

Now I understand the the economy has to reopen. I totally get that. And I get that the government was worried about a healthcare system overload and now the curve has been flattened. But people's risk of getting sick and dying is no less than it was two months ago. The sakanas nefashos factor is still the same.

So I genuinely don't understand why our communities are "reopening"? Why are outdoor minyanim ok now if they weren't two months ago? Why is SD socializing, shopping or learning ok now if just a few weeks ago, the mere suggestion would have you pegged as a grandma-murderer?

What changed?!?!

OP don't listen to people bashing you... You are thinking very logically this is how I think of it...

Very simply, halachly the rabbies are responding to the present information at hand. The curve has flatened, CDC gives guidelines on how to conduct minyanim safely. Unfortunalty... Many people are not following the guidelines . My husband went to shul and was horrified people weren't wearing masks or SD. He left...

I think it's very very possible in a few weeks cases will spike again (I hope not ), because of the lack of social distancing now, and we may be back into stricter SD guidelines again. The reason the curve has been going down is because of the past few weeks of good SD. So we will see....

Halachly there is a fine line of establishing something as halacha (going to shul) based on a fear, ( there could be a second wave )and doing so based on facts...(presently the curve has flatened or x the opposite ... X amount of people are in the hospital) .

amother

Smokey

Tue, May 26 2020, 3:33 am

OP. It's because I wanna LIVE. And staying locked up is not a life.
Okay?
You can stay in forever if you'd like.
I won't.

I trust that Hashem caused it to happen and nothing I do is going to make it better or worse. When He decides to end this, it'll be over.

Hashem wants us to learn, daven, be happy, and raise healthy children. He gave me children to care for. I will do everything necessary to let them go out and play and be normal.

And why do you care what others do anyway?

DrMom

Tue, May 26 2020, 6:02 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I didn't read all 5 pages but as for what changed:

1.There are far few infected people running around now than 2 months ago, so your chance of getting infected is much lower.

2. Hospitals are ready for you if you do get sick, now that they are not so crowded.

That's why we can reopen (with precautions to reduce the smaller but still present risk of infection).

Note: I am referring to Israel's policies in the above statements. No idea where you live or what the stats are there.

ora_43

Tue, May 26 2020, 7:28 am

What drmom said.

I was one of the people strongly against violating social distancing 8 weeks ago.

Back then, if someone got sick, they'd be going into a seriously overloaded and understaffed hospital, and there was reason to worry that there might not be a ventilator available if they needed one. Lack of medical care = odds of death, for a healthy person in their 30s or 40s, would be up to 5%, as opposed to the usual 1%.

Now there are hospital beds available, so if you make someone sick, the odds they'll die are lower. Still uncomfortably high, but much lower.

And you won't be contributing to the collapse of the healthcare system.

I still think that people who don't take simple, reasonable precautions (wearing masks indoors, not going out if you've been exposed to someone ill, etc) are idiots. But the idea was never that anyone who ever takes the slightest risk is a murderer, only that people willing to risk transmission while medical care was terrifyingly unavailable were uncomfortably comfortable with risking others' lives.

momsrus

Tue, May 26 2020, 9:41 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Hatzala gets a limited number of calls in a day. When you say we had 3 covid calls last night, and you know I called hatzala, you have shared my medical information.

I contacted hatzala to ask if it’s people are sharing that information.

It sounds like the lock-down really got to you. Please get out for some fresh air.

dancingqueen

Tue, May 26 2020, 10:01 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Exactly. People are so dramatic here. I think everyone is in favor of CAUTiOUSLY reopening . Following the multi stage plan of the CDC. No one ever said stay locked in your homes forever. But we are not totally out of the woods yet, unfortunately.

amother

Wine

Tue, May 26 2020, 10:17 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

Can you buy stockings that you wear?
Can a heimish women leave her home without stockings?
Dental work is being pushed off with consequences.
The poor who don’t have credit cards can’t order delivery or curb side as easily.

It’s wonderful that your life is working out so well now.
It’s so nice you have financial means to live so comfortably.

But don’t throw it in the face of those who don’t.

I remember a poster on here stating she was making daily grocery trips because she didn’t have the cash in hand to make a full weekly purchase.
Those are the ppl suffering now.

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, May 26 2020, 1:36 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You've all given wonderful arguments to support the economic or humanitarian side of reopening, but no one has addressed the Jewish halachic/hashkafic side. If such extreme measures were put into place by our Rabbinic leaders for the sake of sakanas nefashos, now that the curve is flattened or the economy needs to be reopened, or "my kids won't stay sane staying inside" or even "the number of new cases have gone down so the risk is theoretically less" are irrelevant to the issue of sakanas nefashos. While our government leaders have our society's interests at large in mind, by reopening they are willing to accept a certain amount of deaths c"v (for a "greater" cause - that I am not arguing with). But halacha/hashkafa values the life of even one person, and so long as the risk to individuals is basically the same, I don't understand the decision to reopen on a community level.

Because at this time the risk is simply not as great. This is spoken as someone who has been following every guideline of the stoliner Rebbe, who for those that are unaware, was the first to take a hardline approach, the first to close his shuls and who demanded that every one of his chassidim make their own Pesach and kept reiterating how can you take the chance of you ch"v spreading the virus to someone who doesn't make it, etc... And now he said we can relax. Those over 60 still need to be extra cautious, and yes, preferably not leave their house but the rest of us CAN calm down a bit. Not fully back to what was before but we are no longer in the height of a pandemic b"H.

amother

Aquamarine

Tue, May 26 2020, 6:48 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

This is isuch a selfish attitude. What you do effects other people. If you all go out and crowd together and breath onto each other, you are spreading disease, that effects everyone in the community and outside of it, if someone that caught it ventures out. Normal, to what extent? My children are playing outside with masks. I go out every day, with a mask adn I take it off if nobody is around. Nobody said you have to stop living.

dont you have parents you're worried about? that someone out there will get them sick? I had this converstaion before it started with a relative who said I was nuts. and its all hype. I just told her please dont let your children near your parents.. guess what? one of them died. We all knew this was coming before Purim. Most chose to ignore it, bec. denial seems to be a "go - to" tactic .

amother

Powderblue

Tue, May 26 2020, 7:03 pm

amother [ Ivory ] wrote:

I think it's very very possible in a few weeks cases will spike again (I hope not ), because of the lack of social distancing now, and we may be back into stricter SD guidelines again. The reason the curve has been going down is because of the past few weeks of good SD. So we will see....

.

[quote][b]

I think so too.
I hope and pray that not but... it started in North America with just one case.

amother

Slateblue

Tue, May 26 2020, 7:47 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

But it started with ONE person!
I also don’t get it.

OK thank you! This is what confuses me the most. It escaped (the lab, the wet market, the animal, whatever) via ONE person.

So as long as ONE person still has it, how can it ever stop spreading??

I know if immunity was a thing then that would do it. But we are far from it, even if that does protect us, and we don't even know if there is immunity to this.

amother

Beige

Tue, May 26 2020, 8:10 pm

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

Us not knowing if there is, doesn't mean that there isn't. The people in BP and Willi are convinced that there is herd immunity.

You really don't see the difference between 1 person spreading it in a world where NOONE is immune, to 1 person spreading it where many, many people are immune?

And round and round the circle we go....