21 month old biting other kids

amother

Natural

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 12:38 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You can be a firm parent without raising your voice.
you can say no to a child without having to repeat because your child understands that you will not change your mind. Yet your no comes from a loving place.
The kids that are bullys are the kids that need to defending themselves because their parents or someone or something is hurting/bulling them. A kid that knows his parents are on their side do not need to bully other kids. They have the world's confidence.

You said you never say no to your kids.
Of course saying no can come from a loving place. But kids need to be told no to learn right from wrong.
We stopped telling my neighbor about the bullying because she says her kids never bully or hurt other kids and when she asks her kids if they're bothering other kids, of course they say they don't. So everyone just stays away from them.
Whatever you decide to do about the biting, the main thing is to be persistent about it, even if you have to keep doing it multiple times a day. If you're persistent she'll hopefully see you mean business and will stop.

oneofakind

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 9:35 am

It's more about being taken into the bungalow than about saying no. She'll learn really quickly. 21 months is too young to be without direct supervision so you will be next to her at all times anyway. I'd also start teaching her words to say to express her distress even while you're disciplining for biting

Ora in town

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 10:03 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I don't ever tell my kids no. When you tell your kids no you are reinforcing the action. Just like there is a paper on the wall that says wet paint do not touch you will go ahead and touch the wall. Or if I tell you to close your eyes you can think of anything but a pink elephant, what are you thinking of? Oh yes a pink elephant. It's human nature

I did see with one of my kids that she kept on biting, I kept pulling her away, after 2 weeks it actually worked. She doesn't bit that child anymore. However in a bungalow county when there are so many kids I can't have 100 eyes on her and keep on running after her.

I think you are wrong in this assumption.
And I think education will be very hard working on those premises.

I am even more astonished that you would consider corporal punishment (biting her when she bites others) or taping her mouth shut rather than saying her "No" or "Don't do that" in stern voice, at eye level with her...

You should communicate with her.
Saying no (= this is not allowed) is communication, in certain (perhaps rare) situations when it is necessary...

Perhaps, when a child is bigger, and they want something you cannot or will not give them, there are more elegant ways to refuse than a plain "no". I get that.

However, in some situations, children have to just follow your lead. That's vital. It is vital that children know that when you speak in a certain way, obeying is not optional, but mandatory...

You can reinforce this by motivating them when they do obey you... "good girl" "so nice" or anything she loves (kiss, little game, laugh together)

amother

Chocolate

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 10:23 am

If she's 21 months old she shouldn't be playing outside by herself anyway, so you are with her anyway and can pull her away.
But, truthfully, if the biting doesn't stop, the other kids won't be playing with her anyway because their parents will keep them away. I know I would.
So, you can put in the time and effort to break this habit or it won't be an issue anyway if she has no playmates.

keym

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 10:45 am

I've worked with this age. A few thoughts.

1) Every single time they bite or are about to bite, they have to be taken away.
Say firmly "we only bite the chewy" or " we only eat food".
Being put into the stroller or held on a lap may work instead of bringing them inside if you're watching other kids
2) I can't comment on the colony culture of not being able to have eyes on the toddler on all times. Can't relate.
3) don't play eating/biting games. Don't "eat the belly" or other types of games that can confuse the kid when biting is ok or not.
4) this is exteme. But with one of my kids we avoided encouraging kissing. Only hugging. Many babies kiss and bite similar and by encouraging the baby to kiss, we were defacto subconsciously encouraging biting.
5) teach the toddler to say a simple word. Mine. Or I want.
6) make sure the child is not hungry or thirsty or hot. Physical discomfort can exacerbate the problem.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 10:49 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Huh? I totally disagree with this.

Kids need limits, and the first one they understand is NO. It's basic teaching, elementary chinuch, to say NO to our children, and I've never found that it reinforces the action.

You see a sign that says Wet Paint, and it's a warning. I definitely don't get tempted to touch.

Could there be an occasional person who needs reverse psychology? Perhaps. But to say that this is a general rule for everybody is, IMVHO, totally fallacious.

amother

Denim

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:00 am

Chayalle wrote:

Yes! Not to mention as frum Jews, frankly we say no a lot. Adjust for your hashkafah but: no, we can’t do that on Shabbos. No, that’s not kosher. No, you can’t wear that x, watch that, read that, go there. I am all for positive parenting and even more for positive Judaism but let’s not pretend that the world is our oyster and it’s all open to us. But all that aside, when it comes to our safety and the safety of others (which biting other kids definitely all’s under) NO is absolutely imperative. No! We don’t cross the street without an adult. No we don’t play near the Shabbos candles. No we don’t climb on the bookcase. And no we don’t use our mouths to hurt anyone. Mouths are for eating and speaking that’s it.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:08 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

Agree. And from a Hashkafic perspective, I'd take this farther and say that our relationship with our children teaches them about relating to Hashem. And Hashem sometimes says NO to us. We need to be able to accept that. When we say no to our children, we are teaching them that there are boundaries to life, and that we must learn to accept and live within what we are given.

amother

Denim

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:18 am

Chayalle wrote:

Couldn’t agree more with this. To get personal I was responding to my 4 year olds request for a sibling (which we were struggling greatky to give her ) and we talked about Hashem and how we make our requests but ultimately Hashem knows what’s good for us and if we should have it and I remember using the analogy of when she asks me for a treat sometimes I say no for reasons she may not understand like it will give her a tummy ache or hurt her teeth or whatever but that she’s needs to trust that mommy knows what’s best for her

amother

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:26 am

Hi I'm back. To clarify: What I meant to say I don't tell my kids while they're actually doing the action no don't do that or no don't touch that or no you're not allowed to bite. I remove my kids from the object/In this case the victim. However I definitely tell my kids no when they ask me for certain things or things I don't agree on. And my kids take a no from me actually very well, and they know when Mommy says no she won't change her mind. (This is for ages up to 9 years shouldn't be done with teenagers)

amother

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:30 am

Ora in town wrote:

Uummmm what? Have you read my OP? Yes, I know you read it. Did you comprehend what I wrote? I was horrified when I heard it, never in a million years would I think of doing such a thing to my kids.

amother

Natural

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:33 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hi I'm back. To clarify: What I meant to say I don't tell my kids while they're actually doing the action no don't do that or no don't touch that or no you're not allowed to bite. However I definitely tell my kids no when they ask me for certain things or things I don't agree on. And my kids take a no from me actually very well, and they know when Mommy says no she won't change her mind. (This is for ages up to 9 years shouldn't be done with teenagers)

If you don't tell your child "no biting" while he's biting, he'll never learn not to bite. If you tell him no biting when he doesn't bite, he won't know to associate it and apply it to when he does bite. If you tell him firmly "no biting" when he's biting, he'll learn quicker that it's wrong. If you wait to reprimand him at a later time, he won't understand what you want from him.

amother

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:37 am

amother [ Natural ] wrote:

I disagree, saying no has always reinforce the bad action. And that's not something I want. Pulling away has always worked, now as well. I'm just concerned I don't have eyes in back of me to see what she's doing.

See Sara Yaroslawitz parenting method.

Chayalle

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:43 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

OK, your clarification definitely helps this make more sense.

I'm not familiar with SR's parenting method, but if it works for you, then great! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I was more concerned when it appeared that you never say no to your kids, so I'm glad you clarified.

I'm not sure that her premise is a blanket rule for everyone, but I can hear where it works for certain types of kids.

amother

Ecru

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 11:56 am

OP, I think you are seeking excuses and approval from us. Not getting any here. You don't tell your kids no, and don't discipline them because other people and their children are not your problem or concern and you can't be bothered to watch and be responsible for your 21 month old in bungalow colony. Awesome. If she falls in someone else's kiddy pool, who's problem is that?
Watch your own kid and teach her not to bite!

amother

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 12:04 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Chayalle, I appreciate the fact that you came back to post after I clarified. I always admire how level-headed and forgiving you come through in your posts.

amother

Natural

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Why would it reinforce bad behavior?
This might work for an older child that understands more. But if you tell a toddler "no biting" when he doesn't bite, he won't understand. He needs to be told as he's biting so that he understands that you don't bite. How does pulling him back when be bites work if he keeps biting?? It's not fair to take a more lax approach on other kids' expense. You don't want to be the mother in the bungalow colony that other's stay away from.

amother

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 12:08 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

You do know there's a person behind the screen reading your response that has feelings right?

If I wouldn't care what my child does to a other kid I wouldn't be concerned that I'm not going to be able to look after her the entire time I would just let her go free and let her do as she pleases.

amother

Natural

Thu, Jun 18 2020, 12:33 pm

amother [ Ecru ] wrote:

It actually doesn't look like she's seeking approval at all, just advice. No where did she imply that she won't watch her kid. Kids get into trouble even when they're watched all the time.
Because her way of discipline is different than yours, doesn't mean that she doesn't discipline her kids.