Question! Might be a little intense but here goes...

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 8:32 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

Chumras and how Brooklyn has changed in the past 10 years are immaterial if you look at the bigger picture or Judaism.

Can you explain what you mean? Chumrot have become more and more the norm in some communities as halacha and not chumras.

amother

Teal

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 8:35 am

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Can you explain what you mean? Chumrot have become more and more the norm in some communities as halacha and not chumras.

I mean to say that people responded to OP that they have noticed chumras changes and I was pointing out that big picture has experienced great change beyond a chumra (see my previous post)

#BestBubby

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:14 am

Jewish schools for girls is a very new innovation.

But Jewish schools for boys was also an innovation although that happened about 2,000 years ago.

Also large numbers learning in kollel while the wife supports is a new innovation - that used to be
for a very select few with the father in law supporting.

malki2

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:19 am

amother [ Puce ] wrote:

It doesn’t say to rest. It says Shabbos is a day of rest because Hashem rested. So we don’t do melacha.

But I’m talking about chumras like ways of dressing and cholov yisrael, among other things alike

Excuse me, Cholov Yisroel is not a Chumra. Milking under Jewish supervision was always required by Halacha (at least for the past 2000 years or so). Nothing changed in that respect.
You are probably referring to the question of whether USDA regulations are an acceptable substitute for Jewish supervision. That is a recent question. Some are machmir, some are meikil.

Dressing B’tzniyus is also not a chumra. Erva must be covered up.

Last edited by malki2 on Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:22 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Teal

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:22 am

malki2 wrote:

Eating non-cholov Yisroel is a ‘new’ thing

amother

Puce

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:25 am

malki2 wrote:

Wow, way to nitpick. For some reason, everyone else understood what I’m talking about. As did you, I’m sure, but if you wanna get technical, fine.
And who said I was talking about tznius? Maybe I was talking about men who used to wear colored shirts and now decided that white shirts is the way to go.
You gotta chilllllll

Frumme

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:56 am

malki2 wrote:

Thank you, Malki2! Was just about to point out that CY is not a chumrah, it's basic halacha. Glad someone beat me to it Wink

I don't think it was nitpicking, either. It's flat out incorrect to say CY is a chumrah and it's important that people don't get the wrong information. CY being a chumrah is a common myth, unfortunately.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:01 am

malki2 wrote:

That's not the only reason why people are allowed to eat cholov stam. For example we hold that in ny/nj/plcaces where it's easy to keep CY we have to but in cities where it's very hard to we don't have to.

malki2

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:13 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

That’s not true. If milk is truly non- Chalav Yisroel, I.e., Chalav Akum, it is forbidden to be drunk under any circumstances. Rav Moshe held that milk that was produced under USDA regulations, colloquially referred to as “Cholov Stam” has the same status as CY. He further said that if possible, one should drink true CY. So for people living far from Frum areas, he held that it was fine to drink CS. It should be noted that not everyone agrees with Rav Moshe’s ruling. So for them, CY is not a Chumra in any way, because all milk is Chalav Akum.

amother

Magenta

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:18 am

shabbatiscoming wrote:

What does this mean?

I meant rest. But either way way always hear there are 70 paths to torah and zu v'zu divrei elokim chaim. So it seems that with many halochos there is a difference of opinion about how to apply it.

There's don't kill and don't steal. Most others there is a machlokes about how to apply it. Don't eat milk and meat is an example. We all agree we can't eat them together but do we wait 1 hour, 3 hours, or 6 hours between meat and milk? Some wait between dairy and meat and others don't.

amother

Seagreen

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:20 am

malki2 wrote:

Ok. So I wasn't aware of the reasoning and of the background. Doesn't make our psak not true...

Our Yeshiva clearly agrees with that ruling as we hold by most everything R' Moshe said.

malki2

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:31 am

amother [ Seagreen ] wrote:

Ok. So I wasn't aware of the reasoning and of the background. Doesn't make our psak not true...

Our Yeshiva clearly agrees with that ruling as we hold by most everything R' Moshe said.

I meant that it’s not true that CY applies only where it’s convenient.

amother

Lemon

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 10:49 am

This might be going off in a tangent but if you ask a rav a halachik question and one rav says mutter and the other says assur (lets take nidda as an example as we all agree that taharas hamishpacha is a true Halacha) then how is that possible? One rav say tells you that you may go to Mikva (and be with your husband) and another will tell you start counting again. I don’t Understand...

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:35 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

This is the whole thing. There are so many ways to interpret everything so that if you ask 10 rabbanim you will most probably get 10 different answers. Thats just how it is. Or you could be lucky and get 10 answers that are the same.
Each specific question will be different to the next. And for each person as well.

Ruchel

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:37 am

A rav I admire said, whatever isn't halacha changes, but the core remains. I say it not well.

Or, ces choses-là évoluent avec les époques.
Si à l’époque du Rambam (ou d’autres) il était honteux et ridicule d’embrasser sa sœur et que seuls les idiots le faisaient (megouné beyoter et maassé tipshim), il est certain qu’il ne convenait pas à un juif de le faire.

En d’autres mots, le Rambam désapprouve clairement cette conduite CAR c’est la conduite des tipshim et que c’est megouné beyoter.

Mais si nous voyons que ce n’est pas megouné beyoter, le Rambam n’y serait pas tant opposé.

Ce qu'il faut bien comprendre, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de définitions ala'hiques en centimètres transmises au Sinaï sur la tsniout, ce qui fait que la définition de ce qui est tsanoua ou non peut être amené à évoluer en fonction des pays et des époques.

I recommend google translate as I have taken upon myself not to translate anymore on this website after being told I did not well.

shabbatiscoming

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:37 am

malki2 wrote:

Dressing B’tzniyus is also not a chumra. Erva must be covered up.

Of course dressing in a tzanua way is not a chumra, but different streams of orthodoxy interpret what exactly has to be covered up differently.

malki2

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:42 am

Ruchel wrote:

Lol. I tried that. You should keep translating. You’ll definitely do a better job than Google.

Success10

Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:43 am

amother [ Lemon ] wrote:

It is a bit of a tangent, but it's a good question and something I have struggled with in the past.

The way I understand it is that at Sinai, we received one clearly understood Torah, written and oral. As we moved further from Sinai, things became somewhat lost in translation, as we can see from Shamai and Hillel, there were different interpretations of the halacha based on the Torah sources available. But Hashem gave over the power of the Oral Law to the rabbonim. Meaning, that if a Rav is legitimate, and following a legitimate Mesorah and sources of previous generations, and he issues a psak, Hashem accepts his psak. Even if another Rav holds differently. They are both right. He can not come up with a psak out of thin air, though. It has to be based on sources of previous generations.