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-> Judaism
amother
Puce
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:53 am
ShishKabob wrote: | Can we please not mix in chumras into this mix? Let's talk about plain old fashioned halacha. Thank you |
OPs question is about if and how there are changes. I think adopting chumras is one answer of how it is changing. She didn’t specifically ask about halachas.
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amother
Olive
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:55 am
Rappel wrote: | I agree with your statement about customs, but even halacha can change. Or what do you think Boaz was doing with a Moabite woman?
On a basic level, halacha doesn't change NOW because we don't have a Sanhedrin. The lack of a Sanhedrin also allows for differences of opinion in halacha, since there's no central body to determine the final law. But our Torah is called "a living Torah" ; it was meant to change over time, under certain parameters.
Beezrat Hashem, may we merit to re-establish the Sanhedrin soon ! |
The halacha didn't change for Boaz. It was clarified. It had been misunderstood, about the Moavi women.
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ShishKabob
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:56 am
amother [ Puce ] wrote: | OPs question is about if and how there are changes. I think adopting chumras is one answer of how it is changing. She didn’t specifically ask about halachas. | I know, but it gets very tricky when you start with chumros. The sky is the limit. And real chumros are supposed to have a mekor, not just a random bubbe maases, or cases where people do self infliction or who knows what.
The Torah adapts to changes, not evolves.
For ex: lighting a fire was expanded to include opening a light switch on Shabbos, or any electrical gadget that type of thing. There were no electrical gadgets eons ago.
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amother
Olive
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 11:59 am
malki2 wrote: | I meant that it’s not true that CY applies only where it’s convenient. |
Right, it's only in the US where there is even a heter. Because of the FDA, etc. If you were in a random S. American country, for example, no you would not be able to eat CS.
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ShishKabob
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 12:11 pm
amother [ Olive ] wrote: | Right, it's only in the US where there is even a heter. Because of the FDA, etc. If you were in a random S. American country, for example, no you would not be able to eat CS. | And the heter was provided by one godol and it was taken wayyyyy out of context in addition to other heteirim that were meant for yechidim all of a sudden they took the train and ran with it.
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amother
Olive
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 12:18 pm
ShishKabob wrote: | And the heter was provided by one godol and it was taken wayyyyy out of context in addition to other heteirim that were meant for yechidim all of a sudden they took the train and ran with it. |
There is a little more nuance to it than that.
BTW. I use this heter. I eat CS (obviously in America only).
It bugs me when people who don't have a superior attitude to those who do.
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amother
Lemon
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:04 pm
Success10 wrote: | It is a bit of a tangent, but it's a good question and something I have struggled with in the past.
The way I understand it is that at Sinai, we received one clearly understood Torah, written and oral. As we moved further from Sinai, things became somewhat lost in translation, as we can see from Shamai and Hillel, there were different interpretations of the halacha based on the Torah sources available. But Hashem gave over the power of the Oral Law to the rabbonim. Meaning, that if a Rav is legitimate, and following a legitimate Mesorah and sources of previous generations, and he issues a psak, Hashem accepts his psak. Even if another Rav holds differently. They are both right. He can not come up with a psak out of thin air, though. It has to be based on sources of previous generations. |
But if a rav keeps a husband from his wife when she’s clean then from what I understand he’s in big trouble so if he for instance says she’s nidda then we assume he doesn’t have a choice but then another rav says no problem then are we allowing a niddah woman to be with husband or are we being too zealous to say a woman is niddah. I cannot understand
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Success10
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:12 pm
amother [ Lemon ] wrote: | But if a rav keeps a husband from his wife when she’s clean then from what I understand he’s in big trouble so if he for instance says she’s nidda then we assume he doesn’t have a choice but then another rav says no problem then are we allowing a niddah woman to be with husband or are we being too zealous to say a woman is niddah. I cannot understand |
Both Rabbonim are right, and each woman got the psak that she needs. If I hold up an apple, we might both describe it very differently, since I'm sitting on one side of the apple, and you on the other, yet we are both right. Hashem listens to the psakim of both rabbonim, and they are both correct in their rulings in shamayim.
As a side note, once your rav gives you a specific psak for niddah, I don't think you are allowed to go looking for a more lenient psak. You can choose to in general go to a rav who paskens more leniently for niddah issues, if there are recurring issues.
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amother
Denim
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:15 pm
Hashem_n_Farfel wrote: | It’s me again 🙈
Do you think judaism changes with time?
I truly believe the Torah is eternal and never changing but how can it be that people changed their way of dress and adopted customs throughout the years?
Do those things make us “closer” to hashem or is it just things that are passed down through the generations? |
The Torah is eternal but the world changes.
G-d is behind those changes.
He gave us the Torah that is for all times and Rabbis to teach us how to adapt with the times according to the Torah.
Sounds pretty simple to me.
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ShishKabob
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:18 pm
Success10 wrote: |
As a side note, once your rav gives you a specific psak for niddah, I don't think you are allowed to go looking for a more lenient psak. You can choose to in general go to a rav who paskens more leniently for niddah issues, if there are recurring issues. | That's why Rabbonim usually keep the 'shailah', they don't allow you to take it back with you.
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PeanutMama
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:23 pm
Frumme wrote: | Thank you, Malki2! Was just about to point out that CY is not a chumrah, it's basic halacha. Glad someone beat me to it
I don't think it was nitpicking, either. It's flat out incorrect to say CY is a chumrah and it's important that people don't get the wrong information. CY being a chumrah is a common myth, unfortunately. |
That what gets me.
How do I even know I’m doing too much or too little??
BH I dress very tznius but nicely but I only wear synthetic shaitels bc it what my husband likes and prefers lol. And we only eat cholov yisroel even tho I’m dyyyyyying for a cholov stam Hershey’s white chocolate bar.
So to anybody I look the part dress the part. But then when I visit my non chasidish friends they say “that’s not halacha that’s chumra” and my whole outlook gets ruined.
Yep talking to a rav about this
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PeanutMama
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:29 pm
Just read all the answers! Thank you all.
So on har Sinai everyone saw hashem give the Torah? And everyone did the same things?
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malki2
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:39 pm
Hashem_n_Farfel wrote: | Just read all the answers! Thank you all.
So on har Sinai everyone saw hashem give the Torah? And everyone did the same things? |
Yes. Until around the time of the Mishna (2000) years ago, everyone did the same thing. Then, due to people’s limited capabilities of retaining the Torah absolutely in it’s entirety and passing it completely from student to teacher, some disagreements crept in, creating different Halachic realities. They keep growing and fragmenting further until this day. Please understand though that while it seems like everyone is always arguing (and they are), these are actually regarding relatively minor points. 99 percent of the laws of the Torah are agreed upon by everyone.
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Rappel
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 1:44 pm
malki2 wrote: | Yes. Until around the time of the Mishna (2000) years ago, everyone did the same thing. Then, due to people’s limited capabilities of retaining the Torah absolutely in it’s entirety and passing it completely from student to teacher, some disagreements crept in, creating different Halachic realities. They keep growing and fragmenting further until this day. Please understand though that while it seems like everyone is always arguing (and they are), these are actually regarding relatively minor points. 99 percent of the laws of the Torah are agreed upon by everyone. |
Well said!
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dancingqueen
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 2:14 pm
Hashem_n_Farfel wrote: | It’s me again 🙈
Do you think judaism changes with time?
I truly believe the Torah is eternal and never changing but how can it be that people changed their way of dress and adopted customs throughout the years?
Do those things make us “closer” to hashem or is it just things that are passed down through the generations? |
Nah, even Moshe, Aharon, and Miriam dressed “European style”.
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PeanutMama
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 8:04 pm
dancingqueen wrote: | Nah, even Moshe, Aharon, and Miriam dressed “European style”. |
Whoa! Way back in the day??
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PeanutMama
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 8:04 pm
I thought people dressed simpler lol
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gold21
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:46 pm
Hashem_n_Farfel wrote: | That what gets me.
How do I even know I’m doing too much or too little??
BH I dress very tznius but nicely but I only wear synthetic shaitels bc it what my husband likes and prefers lol. And we only eat cholov yisroel even tho I’m dyyyyyying for a cholov stam Hershey’s white chocolate bar.
So to anybody I look the part dress the part. But then when I visit my non chasidish friends they say “that’s not halacha that’s chumra” and my whole outlook gets ruined.
Yep talking to a rav about this |
Halacha doesn't really change.
Minhagim vary, and there is a Jewish saying that goes "minhag yisroel k'halacha". Keeping to YOUR community's minhagim may be halacha for YOU, but not for others. So it is the keeping of your community's minhagim that is the halacha you are keeping, despite the fact that every community has their own minhagim. If you are uncomfortable with some of the minhagim, perhaps you would be more comfortable in a different community. Alternatively, speak to a Rav.
For ex, I have many different minhagim than others. I only hold 3 hours between meat and milk. But keeping to MY minhagim is what I am supposed to do.
Last edited by gold21 on Wed, Sep 02 2020, 2:16 am; edited 3 times in total
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BH Yom Yom
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Tue, Sep 01 2020, 9:48 pm
dancingqueen wrote: | Nah, even Moshe, Aharon, and Miriam dressed “European style”. |
Of course, Moshe and Aharon definitely wore shtreimlach!
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Ruchel
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Wed, Sep 02 2020, 7:32 am
ShishKabob wrote: | That's why Rabbonim usually keep the 'shailah', they don't allow you to take it back with you. |
... what? This has never happened to me, and I would be livid.
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