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-> New York related Inquiries
ora_43
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 11:57 am
They function just fine the next day, because they are teenagers, and have absurd amounts of energy.
*sigh*
Anyway. Second, third, etc, the advice to talk to whoever is in charge of the shul. If you have other neighbors who are equally bothered by this, acting as a group might be more effective.
(Initially I would have sided with the posts saying 'better they party there than elsewhere,' but for me, as soon as they're keeping the neighbors awake the picture changes dramatically. Letting them get away with that isn't doing them any favors.)
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amother
Peach
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 12:05 pm
SixOfWands wrote: | Of course.
Call the shul, tell them that the music has been very loud into the morning hours motzei Shabbat, ask them to ensure its kept at a more reasonable level.
If they refuse, call 311. IMNSHO its not mosering. They aren't going to arrest anyone, just tell them to keep it down or disburse.
You can both agree that its a great idea to have an outlet for young people motzei Shabbat, and agree that they should be respectful of neighbors. |
Moisering is reporting, it doesn't matter if they're going to arrest or fine someone or not. Being a tattletale is moiser.
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ora_43
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 12:59 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote: | Moisering is reporting, it doesn't matter if they're going to arrest or fine someone or not. Being a tattletale is moiser. |
It actually kinda does, the problematic nature of mesira is due to the threat to someone's property or even life.
There's also a mahloket around whether mesira even applies in a democracy, for the same reason.
That said it's true that it's davka with light crimes that being oiver on mesira is a real possibility. It's the cases like violence or s-x crimes where people are wrong to say there's an inyan of mesira.
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amother
Peach
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 1:00 pm
ora_43 wrote: | It actually kinda does, the problematic nature of mesira is due to the threat to someone's property or even life.
There's also a mahloket around whether mesira even applies in a democracy, for the same reason.
That said it's true that it's davka with light crimes that being oiver on mesira is a real possibility. It's the cases like violence or s-x crimes where people are wrong to say there's an inyan of mesira. |
I never heard anyone saying that we can't moiser s-x abuse or violence. Immediate danger falls in to a different category than annoyance.
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amother
Royalblue
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 1:03 pm
ora_43 wrote: | It actually kinda does, the problematic nature of mesira is due to the threat to someone's property or even life.
There's also a mahloket around whether mesira even applies in a democracy, for the same reason. | This, I know in Lakewood people were told by a mainstream rav that if the culprits would only get a warning then it wasn’t an issue to report them. I’m pretty sure this was for a noise issue actually.
Obviously ask your own lor.
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amother
Ginger
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 1:09 pm
Why is the OP still venting with all types of excuses instead of contacting the rav of the shul?
I understand those saying that this is an outlet for bachurim but I hope you all raise your kids to be mentchin and not entitled brats whether you live in bp or south fallsburg, and teach them that when its nighttime for the rest of the world they should think of others and plan their fun accordingly.
I don’t think it warrants a call to 311 or the police but I do think she should call the rav instead of still venting 2 days later...
And btw im not worried how they function the next day. I’m sure this isn’t a daily occurrence and teenagers aren’t as tired as us moms...
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ora_43
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 1:13 pm
amother [ Peach ] wrote: | I never heard anyone saying that we can't moiser s-x abuse or violence. Immediate danger falls in to a different category than annoyance. |
I've heard it.
I was only mentioning that to clarify the distinction... Otherwise it sounds like saying either that light crimes can be reported but heavy crimes can't, or the contrary, heavy crimes can be reported but light crimes can't.
But there are two different inyanim here, that can make it permissible to report both serious crimes and very light crimes, while regular non-violent crime still can't be reported.
All just AFAIK and IIRC.
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amother
Royalblue
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 1:45 pm
amother [ Ginger ] wrote: | Why is the OP still venting with all types of excuses instead of contacting the rav of the shul?
I understand those saying that this is an outlet for bachurim but I hope you all raise your kids to be mentchin and not entitled brats whether you live in bp or south fallsburg, and teach them that when its nighttime for the rest of the world they should think of others and plan their fun accordingly.
I don’t think it warrants a call to 311 or the police but I do think she should call the rav instead of still venting 2 days later...
And btw im not worried how they function the next day. I’m sure this isn’t a daily occurrence and teenagers aren’t as tired as us moms... | Because she’s waiting to talk to the rav who apparently isn’t in a rush to talk to her
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sequoia
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Mon, Mar 22 2021, 2:03 pm
As was pointed out in another thread, the word “tattletale” is used by two categories:
1. Children
2. Criminals
Is Judaism a prison where we must abide by prison camp rules, or a perpetual kindergarten where “telling the teacher” is the worst thing you can do?
No! We are adults, living in a representative democracy! We are equal citizens. These rules were made for a very different time and place.
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