A different flavor

Akeres Habayis

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:11 pm

now I understand why I was asked if I was from chicago! Twisted Evil

I'm not sure if I should be insulted by the person who asked,or upset that there are people searching for the right thing and coming up short.Its sad a little,bc they want Torah/truth,but dont understand the depth of Judaism,its more than kashrut,shabbos etc.it isn't a "flavor" its the essence, of our being....and they are missing it.

Tamiri

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:21 pm

Akeres, they look happy in what they are doing and they have GREAT music. I am only sorry I could not hear more. Who cares if they are/aren't following Rabbinic Judaism. That is each person's choice in the world. What is important is that they seem like a community and happy in the way they serve G-d. Anything else is no one's business.
I called it a different flavor because it's different than what we usually see. Not a judgement call, just a catchy subject line.

HindaRochel

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:26 pm

Happy or not they are calling themselves Jews when they might not be which does a great disservice to Jews of color whether they are converts or not, and converts in general, and to Jews in general.

I'm very liberal, I think that is fairly obvious from my posts. But to call oneself a Jew I think you should actually be Jewish and not just sort of following Torah because it is nice lets make up our own rules on how we come to it and what it means.

Emee

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:29 pm

This is my cue to pipe in...as a "jew of colour" I see what you mean Hinda that they may be doing jews of colour a disservice in that if certain people see them or read abotu them then when they meet a halachic jew of colour they may question the "authenticity " of their judaism.

On the other hand I think they do look like they have a great community and if I am ever in chicago I would probably pop in just to see what it is like.

HindaRochel

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:40 pm

They do look like they have a great community. They do look like happy people. They also are probably nice loving people who would be friends. But I don't know if they are Jewish...and I really have trouble with people who want to call themselves Jewish as if that were enough. I know someone who does that...it really bothers me (he is white btw, as if that were important). He calls himself Jewish but never converted because he has social phobias. He isn't Jewish.

Are members of this group Jewisn? I have my doubts because of things they ahve said. If they have such great love for Judaism and aren't Jewish by birth, or haven't converted correctly, let them come!

In the 14 page report there was something about a whole congregation that converted to Judaism from being a Jewish themed congregation.

Tamiri

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:46 pm

Hinda, I look at Judaism as we know it and think: maybe we are doing it wrong. Maybe these people who look HAPPY in their avoda have it right? Who is to say? We are guardians of the torah, but it's making for an awful lot of farbiseneh people with false values and no more thinking for themselves. What if these "out of the box" people have the key?
I have no discomfort with anyone calling themselves whatever they want. The only time it matters is when *my* kid goes to marry one of theirs!

HindaRochel

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:48 pm

Tamiri wrote:

If they are Jewish, then no problem.
If they are why can't they convert and bring this beauty to us the right way? I think converts are great on a lot of levels. I would be supremely happy if one of my kids brought home a convert to Judaism as a spouse.
But maybe it is just me, but I have real problems with people calling themselves Jewish when they aren't.

Emee

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 3:48 pm

I wouldn't find it surprising to find some actual Jews in the congregation whether that is a small minority or not I don't know but if you grew up frei and you found a place liek this why wouldn't you take part....especially if you are a black jew . As a black Jew it is extremely hard to find a place to fit in so a congregation like this may just be what you are looking for. Just a thought.

HindaRochel

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 4:11 pm

Emee wrote:

I do know this. It is very hard to be black (and probably Asian or Mexiacan or anything else) and Jewish. Prejudice comes at one from all angles. And I can sympathise. But would any Orthdox convert to Judaism daven there?

We need to make our shuls more welcoming in general. They aren't. We need to root out prejudice from ourselves and be more welcoming to converts of all colors. One of my husbands co-workers was black/Jewish and ended up moving because of the way she was treated. It is sick.

But the Beth Shalom community isn't the answer...it is part of the problem. The problem has to be solved from within.

I mean I would love it if that whole community converted and brought their singing and their love to us. That would be grand.

Tamiri

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 4:15 pm

Emee wrote:

Emee, this place looked a bit too... eclectic...for mainstream Judaism. I doubt the CRC in Chicago would rush to embrace them as a whole. If they are Jewish, they need to put out a recording (am I repeating myself? I love gospel but don't tell anyone).

Last edited by Tamiri on Wed, Mar 19 2008, 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

Emee

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 4:35 pm

Hinda I was more referring to a Black Jew who was born Jewish I doubt any convert woudl step foot in that place. But I myself am Black and was born a yid and during the course of my life I have doen alot of soul searching etc and there definitely was a time in my life where a place like that woudl have seemed like a utopia to me! Certainly not now as a frum yid.

Tamiri the music was quite good you are right!

HindaRochel

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 4:57 pm

Emee wrote:

I can see that Emee. Unfortunately there is a lot of prejudice within the Jewish community and that can't be denied. Like I said, we need to get rid of our prejudices and realize that the skin isn't the person (nor what country they were born in, or whether they can hear or not, blind or not, how they look, if they eat grubruks during Pesach or how long they wait between meat and milk etc etc etc), and that we are all Jews, and we shouldn't be pushing people away or treating people as questionable when they are fully Jewish and part of us regardless of anything else. We are Jews.

The world out there doesn't really like us, how can we treat each other disparagingly?

amother

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 6:03 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

(BTW, I do agree that our forefathers were probably black, or at least of a lot darker hue then most Jews are today.)

darker maybe but not black.

a bit of history which I'm sure you already know. The first jew, our first forefather was Avraham who was descended from Shem.
the first black was Cush the son of Cham, who was shem's brother.
the blacks are descended from Cush
we are descended from Shem

yes there were black jews along the way I'm sure, such as Tzipora, moshe's wife.
But as a general rule, no our forefathers were not black. (genetically)
although I can imagine living where they were they may have been dark skinned.

Tamiri wrote:

Who cares if they are/aren't following Rabbinic Judaism. That is each person's choice in the world

As long as a non jew doesn't call himself a jew
a non jew is a perfectly legitimate person and way of life so long as he is moral and keeps the sheva mitzvos bnei noach.
But a non jew claming to be a jew is extremely problematic and damaging.

tamiri wrote:

The only time it matters is when *my* kid goes to marry one of theirs!

heard of the "mi yehudi" campaign?
If you have a problem with one of us marrying a [gentile] then you need to have a problem with an entire community claiming to be jewish when they aren't if that's the case.
Intermarriage is one of the problems leading off this sort of thing.

HindaRochel wrote:

But maybe it is just me, but I have real problems with people calling themselves Jewish when they aren't.

Right, because of the confusion it causes and how it leads to intermarriage and people thinking they are jewish when they aren't.

Mimisinger

Wed, Mar 19 2008, 7:14 pm

Our way of life is practiced essentially as Rabbi Matthew and Rabbi Reuben established it.
Though the standard classification of "Jews" along Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform
lines are an extremely ambiguous set of minhagim (customs), our way of life closely
resemble those of the modern orthodox with clear conservative and African-American
influences. For instance, a lay person would notice that we maintain separate seating
for men and women in our sanctuary, but believe in the complete equality of women. We
allow travel on the Shabbat (Sabbath) for worship services, and follow a biblical definition
of kosher foods that prohibits the eating of pork and certain kinds of sea food but does not
require the separation of milk and meat products. However, we do have members who are
strictly kosher according to the Halakah.

From their website: