Regrets/ not listening to doctors

watergirl

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:28 am

amother [ Salmon ] wrote:

This is where it’s important to ask a frum doctor their opinion. It’s easy for a non jewish doctor to say don’t fast because they don’t understand why fasting is important. That’s why rabbanim don’t always go along with what a doctor says.

If a frum doctor would tell you you cannot fast you know you can trust that he knows fasting is important but the risks are too great.

Its been the total opposite for me. When I was expecting during various pregnancies (I know OP is not expecting and has a different issue), my frum OBs told me not to fast and my non Jewish ones told me to fast.

amother

Blue

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:33 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

I was thinking if I was in her shoes I would probably do shiurim without asking anyone. I was also told by my doc not to fast this year but she allowed IV and that’s what I did. Was pretty uncomfortable and messy but I told dh this is my “suffering” this YK.

Interesting, I never heard of using the iv. Good to know.

amother

Bottlebrush

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:37 am

Totally understand. I did shiurim and it was awful. Like a tease. I just needed a normal meal and drink. Couldn't eat after yk, was too nauseous.

amother

Ballota

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:40 am

There are even more lenient opinions than 7 minutes! Some say 4 minutes! Some say 2! There was room to be meikil. And if that's not good just eat/drink what you need. I'm so so upset for you.

amother

Broom

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:41 am

Literally this was my worst fear. My Rav didn’t want me to do Shiurim although my doctor recommended it since doctor isn’t frum. Rav said he’d call a frum doctor before giving me a psak and I was so so nervous. I had a past loss and have anxiety and am super low energy and weak even non pregnant.

Bh a Rav called back before yuntiv telling me I am not allowed to fast. He told me to do Shiurim and based on how I’m feeling up it to more often and if feeling awful to break my fast.

He even called this morning to check in with me and ask how the fast was and how I’m feeling.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:46 am

amother [ Blue ] wrote:

Interesting, I never heard of using the iv. Good to know.

It’s standard practice around here. In a way better than shiurim because there’s more peace of mind regarding dehydration. I was still pretty weak from not eating but dehydration was the main concern in this case.

doodlesmom

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 10:47 am

So sorry to hear…
But now I’m wondering. Is 6 oz of food and 6 oz of drink an hour not enough to keep a person hydrated?

mha3484

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:00 am

My community has a hotline before yom kippur and tish bav where you can call and talk to a rav and dr at the same time about fasting. Its fantastic. Every community should have this.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:02 am

mha3484 wrote:

My community has a hotline before yom kippur and tish bav where you can call and talk to a rav and dr at the same time about fasting. Its fantastic. Every community should have this.

Over here we don’t even ask a doc before tisha bav. Rabbanim are super lenient with women. YK is the only time they put their foot down. Hence the solution of IV.

amother

Grape

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:12 am

amother [ Bronze ] wrote:

Over here we don’t even ask a doc before tisha bav. Rabbanim are super lenient with women. YK is the only time they put their foot down. Hence the solution of IV.

I believe that there are different opinions regarding IV as the solution. Not everyone holds that IV is better than shiurim and for some IV isn’t enough. I need actual food in addition to hydration. I spoke to a very respected posek who had me call a specific frum dr who is knowledgeable in the halachos. Everyone needs to ask their own shailos, I’m just trying to bring out the point that not all rabbanim hold of IV. Some hold that if you’re at the point that you need medical intervention (ie IV), then you should not be fasting.

amother

Daylily

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:19 am

amother [ Grape ] wrote:

This. Plus there could be issues with IV (falling out etc that can cause Chilul YT if someone needs to come redo the IV line for you on YT). It's a great solution just please ask a Rav before, or make sure that you are knowledgeable about it if you need it.

amother

Bronze

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:32 am

amother [ Daylily ] wrote:

Ofcourse I ask every time. Just rabbanim here overwhelmingly favor IV over shiurim. And yes my line did need to be redone and a nonjewish nurse did it for me.

amother

Jetblack

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:45 am

watergirl wrote:

I've never heard of a rav telling a person to disregard their doctor's directions in a situation like this. That's not only dangerous, but its ignorant and gaiivadig. It's time to find a new rav.

OP, please tell your dr. everything.

Refuah shlemah!

Well, not exactly a rav ... but during my first pregnancy, I was discussing this with a friend who is a medical professional and has semicha -- and he told me that doctors didn't understand the seriousness of Yom Kippur (my ob-gyn was not Jewish), and that I could fast. By the time of the fast, my pregnancy had become more unstable, I was at risk of going into premature labor, and I certainly wasn't going to trust the advice of a dentist with semicha over my ob-gyn. I did shiurim on Yom Kippur and went on to deliver a healthy baby.

amother

Puce

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 11:50 am

amother [ Ballota ] wrote:

There are even more lenient opinions than 7 minutes! Some say 4 minutes! Some say 2! There was room to be meikil. And if that's not good just eat/drink what you need. I'm so so upset for you.

.this!
I was told 4 min right off the bat (not if you start not feeling well, but 4 min starting in the morning and then as needed) and I was like 4 min?!

(This was obv for my specific situation, but I'm saying that 4 min is a legit psak

SixOfWands

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:10 pm

PLEASE CALL YOUR DOCTOR!!!

Your health is paramount at this point.

You made an error in judgment. That's the past. What is important is your health NOW.

Refuah shleima.

Later, when you're better, tell your rav. So he should better understand risks in the future. But that's secondary now.

NotInNJMommy

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:12 pm

In a "machmir" rav's defense, I think sometimes they think everyone knows when it's crossed a line to being beyond a shaila, so they view their strict response with that in mind (oh, well, a person will know if they are really sick/weak to go beyond shiurim, won't they?). Unfortunately, that's not helpful for the asker to understand where the lines actually are and how do deal with things as they are happening.

amother

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:12 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

Thanks, I am in the hospital now.

dankbar

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:12 pm

Certain meds or diseases you need a ton of fluid so it shouldn't affect the kidneys or liver. So it's not only about regular hydration for a well person.

Some meds are diuretics.
Some conditions make a person have diarrhea so they lose lots of liquids.
If a person has fever it also dehydrates them faster.

Doodlesmom you are talking about a cup of water for an hour for a well person.

Anyone sick in a hospital will get tons of ongoing iv fluids much more than regular drinking.

amother

Thistle

Fri, Sep 17 2021, 12:17 pm

my Dr and rov told me to start shiurim if I felt 4 contractions per hour ( in my 8th month). started feeling that around 4pm and waited too long. I was hesitant to break it. the contractions started coming fast and furious by 6pm .I started drink at 7pm shiurim and bh bh they stopped but I definitely should have started earlier...