Newbie dilemma: dense challah

mom21n2

Mon, May 05 2008, 8:37 am

I made challahs this past week for the first time in a while. They were tasty, but very dense. I read the thread on light and fluffy and think perhaps I overworked the dough. I used the recipe in Tamar Ansch's book. What are the minimum mixing, resting, kneading times? (I did not use a mixer.) Also, is there a recipe that calls for flour by weight, rather than by cup measure, that you like and satisfies the amount for the bracha? I think it would be easier to weigh it than to measure out each cup.

sunshine!

Mon, May 05 2008, 8:47 am

5 lbs high gluten flour (sifted)
5 cups lukewarm water
1 cup sugar
3 tbsp dry yeast or 2 oz fresh yeast
3 whole eggs
1/2 cup oil
2 tbsp salt (or 3 tbsp kosher salt)

Directions:

Combine water sugar and yeast
While these 3 ingredients sit together, sift flour and then tranfer 6 cups of flour on top of forst 3 ingredients. Add eggs, oil, and salt. Start your machine on high speed. After a few minutes you should have a sticky paste. Lower speed and add the rest of the flour over a span of 6-8 minutes. Let the dough rest for 15 minutes then give one final spin for 1 minute, then pour an additional 2 tbsp oil on top of dough. Transfer to a large bowl and cover. After 45 minutes to an hour braid challahs and allow to rise one more hour. Egg challah then bake in preheated oven for 45 minutes or until done.

These are Devorah's instructions. The only change is the sugar. She says 3/4 cup or as desired, and I use a cup. Hope they come out YUMMY!!!

Tamiri

Mon, May 05 2008, 8:53 am

Some enlightening suggestions:
(1) Make sure your yeast is fresh. Proof it, if needed
(2) Don't add too much flour. When you are finished kneading, dough should hold together but still be slightly sticky.
(3) If you are kneading by hand, you need to be at it for, I would say, at least 10 - 15 minutes. You want the flour to release it's gluten, and you get that by working the dough.
(4) Make sure you are allowing the dough to rise for long enough.
(5) Sometimes salt inhibits rising. Don't add more than the recipe calls for.
(6) When shaping the loaves, try not to add flour besides a dusting on the board.
(7) I like to use "better" flour for a better loaf.

louche

Mon, May 05 2008, 8:59 am

Unless you're Arnold Schwartzenegger, it's pretty hard to overwork bread dough by hand. You're more likely to UNDERknead, which will also give you a dense loaf. Still more likely scenarios: you killed th yeast with too hot water--not the case if it rose as expected. Or you killed the yeast by leaving the dough to rise too long before baking--not the case if the challot rose after they were put in the oven. Most likely scenario: you used too much flour.

There are approximately 17 cups of flour in 5 lbs of wheat flour.

Flour is not supposed to be measured the way you might measure rice, by scooping right from the canister into a dry-measure measuring cup and leveling off. Ideally you sift first, then spoon lightly into the measuring cup and level off with a knife. Don't pack or shake the flour down into the cup. This gives you considerably less flour than if you stick the cup into the sack and scoop out.

Also, if you're mixing by hand, it's best to first mix only part of the flour with the other ingrecients, and then gradually add more flour as needed till the dough is slightly tacky, like a post-it note. With practice you'll use less and less flour (up to a point! You can't get away with no flour, like the proverbial guy who horse up and died just when he'd trained it to live on no food at all!). The exact volume of flour that you use will vary but you'll usually use less than the recipe calls for.

There is also a difference between brands of flour. The more finely milled the flour, the fluffier your challah will be. I haven't noticed a big diff. in white flours, but in whole wheat there definitely is.

If you're using all-purpose, try hi-gluten or bread flour, or add gluten, available in baking aisles or in health-food stores, to all-purpose.

Shaz

Mon, May 05 2008, 9:18 am

I made challah using exactly the same mixer, times, rising place, etc.
I was getting a dense challah every time eventhough my dough looked good. I switched to a recipe which called for 2 eggs for 14 cups of flour intead of 5 eggs and now I have a nice, light, fluffy challa. So, maybe just trying a different recipe will give you better results.