Morah Not Helping 2yo Potty Train

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Forum -> Children's Health -> Toilet Training

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amother

Powderblue

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 7:43 pm

amother OP wrote:

Just to answer everyone’s questions in one shot:

He’s 2 and a month. So yes young but he is the type of kid that thrives with responsibility.

I spent 4 days barely leaving the house training, not just plopping him on a potty every 15 min but working with him to recognize his own feelings.

He’s slightly behind average on speech so he doesn’t vocalize his needs all the time but he does have physical signs before he goes and is starting to tell me

I don’t think I said anything disrespectful about the morah. I’m expressing frustration that something I spent 4 days focusing on was all thrown out the window within an hour. I’m asking if I’m being reasonable. The personal attack that “I don’t know what it’s like to be a morah” without any knowledge of my background is extremely disrespectful.

2 and a month is really young, and like another poster mentioned it’s the very first week of a new year.

How would you feel about trying again over yt when he’s home for longer? I think it’s possible to train some kids young but to expect a teacher to do it is a bit unreasonable.

Simple1

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 7:51 pm

The first week of school I wouldn't expect anything. The kids are adjusting to a new year, and the Morah has her hands full in keeping the kids calm while they learn the new routine.

notshanarishona

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:28 pm

It doesn’t all go out the window. It’s not all or nothing. You can continue to take him to the bathroom at home and work on it for one or two hours a day and then really work on it on next vacation like Sukkos. 4 days is not enough time to properly train a kid, especially so young. It’s very typical that teachers don’t want kids in underwear until they are 80% or so toilet trained.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:32 pm

It’s not reasonable to expect a Morah to help potty train a 2 year old.
I train my kids when they are 3 and it goes quickly within a few days. At that age the morahs are more likely to help out to some extent because the kids are more ready.

amother

Lemon

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:43 pm

Honestly, I think also since it's a change in the child's schedule (think just starting school and with YT soon approaching,) I don't believe most moros will willingly assist any child (especially one that needs to be promoted and has difficulty communicating their needs) regardless of whether they are 2 or 3.

They need to first get the kids used to routine, adjust to the other children and also learn or perform whatever she has plan. And with many YTs now, it's a difficult cycle to be honest.

It sounds like it's nice that if the child can communicate their needs or needs less promoting and doesn't have many accidents in general, that they're willing to work with you. I was told that there are morahs who don't assist at all and the child needs to be fully toilet trained.

Sorry, I'm no help...
I know it's a frustrating cycle. I had my 3rd and was desperately trying to toilet train my oldest at the same time so I wouldn't have to change 3 diapers Hiding

amother

Candycane

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:43 pm

I would only send my child to morah with underwear when its more likely than not that she would stay dry.
I also don't think its fair to expect a morah to be cleaning up multiple accidents a day. Besides for changing your child she still needs to clean up the puddle and wash the floor and any toys that were involved. It can easily take 10-15 minutes for the morah to deal with each accident which is time that she isn't taking care of the other 7-10 children.
In a Utopian world the morah would say sure and devote herself to training your child but realistically that isn't possible especially not the first day/week of school.

amother

Smokey

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:44 pm

I am not a preschool teacher, but I can’t imagine having to deal with changing accidents all day, while simultaneously dealing with the rest of the class.

OP, your child is so young. It’s a great idea to get him comfortable with the toilet, both at school and at home, but I don’t think it’s fair to send him in underwear until he’s pretty proficiently trained. Ask the morah if she can keep encouraging the bathroom, without leaving her to clean up too many messes. And you can do whatever you’d like with him at home.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:45 pm

I potty trained my 2 and 6m old exactly this time between day camp and school. We finished up thru orientation and by the time the first Monday came dc was pretty good. (2nd weekend)

DC was also the only one in class and did fine BH. I can't recall if he asked to go, but Morah did pampers for nap time. (No point in pull ups) Since no one else was trained it was hard for her to remember to take him but when she set up a schedule the accidents stopped.

Went to cheder at 2.8/2.9 and was totally fine until week of upsherin when he came home dirty.

But OP, my friend just put pampers on her 2.1m old because 6 weeks of training got them no place.

I'd say try over the weekend and see how he is. If he's not better by Monday, try again in 4 months.

tichellady

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 8:57 pm

I think school should help but I also think you need to discuss it with them before you start at home and get a sense of what they can do ( also I find asking for advice makes things go better since teachers like to feel like experts, or maybe we all do?). also my kids go to school with many adults to kids not one teacher to 15 kids, depending on the ratio dealing with potty training may not be possible and agree that the first week of school is probably not ideal from the teachers end. hope it all goes smoothly.

amother

Currant

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 9:12 pm

Yes, as I stated above I train my kids young between 2.2-2.7. After training 7 kids, I can tell confidently tell you to try again at 2.4 chanuka time and let us know what happens.

amother

Grape

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 9:17 pm

Not appropriate to expect this from the morah. I had this where the mom kept sending kid to me saying hes trained when he never verbalized, would protest or cry when taken to bathroom and poop in the underwear or pull up. If it's a number 1 accident he goes in a diaper. I'm not waiting to have to clean up a number 2 accident.

amother

Natural

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 10:12 pm

amother OP wrote:

Please only respond if you don’t think kids need to beg to potty train before even considering starting.

We spent the break between camp and school (4 days for us) working on potty training my 2 year old. Obviously it’s not perfect and I told his morah (he was with her over the summer so not someone completely new) that he isn’t so much telling me when he has to go yet but with prompting every so often, he has more makes than misses. I showed him where the potty was this morning and sent him with extra backup clothes. I asked if they had any protocol in place for potty training and was told “let’s just play it by ear”

When I picked him up, he was wearing a diaper. I asked if he went on the potty at all and was told he had an accident very early on so they put him in a pull-up and when he made in that, they just put him in a diaper. And he never told them when he needed to go (which I already warned her that he most likely wouldn’t) The main teacher suggested that I just try again over Shabbos. There’s also no one else in the group (older 2s) thats trained yet

He’s my first so I’m wondering if that’s a normal response from the morah. I’m also wondering if it’s reasonable to expect her to keep him out of a diaper/pull up except for nap time and just deal with the accidents as necessary, making sure to prompt him more. There’s a younger 3s group in the same building so there has to be some protocol somewhere about kids who aren’t using diapers anymore.

Any advice is welcome because I know if there isn’t a united front about this, it will take forever to actually get it down.

This is my opinion;
Think about it yourself imagine you being the morah and a mother brings her child not fully trained. You say good morning to the kids and offer the bathroom 10 min later you ask the kids and take him/her to the bathroom again …well 5 min later The morah is telling the kids a story everybody is sitting nicely and then after the story the kids get up the 2 kids seated near this child are wet and the child that made too…now you gotta deal with changing 3 when really This morah did all she can.

And then she changes the kid and puts on panties and tries the bathroom again every ten minutes (keep in mind that the morahs are not bored they are actually taking care of other kids breaking up fights and preparing lunch and crafts…)
Well the kids are all playing with legos and again this same kid has an accident on the toys..who picks it up and washes them? The morah. And the other kids that touched the toys? Eww I wouldn’t want my child too.
She changes the kids and by then she is smart and puts on a pull up. Yes before a child comes to daycare that child must know how to ask!! A accident every once in a while is ok and will be dealt with but if the morah sees that the child isn’t even 10% trained she will not deal with
It’s a mommys job to toilet train her kids and not morah.
Oh and btw 4 days is really nothing for most kids…most kids need at least 2 weeks to be at least 50% trained. Sometimes miracles happen and a child trains themselves overnight usually it’s once the child it 3+…
Well I’m not a morah but I do understand their point of view..I would expect them to help once the child asks (meaning if the child can’t go alone) but otherwise it’s not part of their job they are here to make sure your kid is happy and taken care of .

amother

Navyblue

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 10:51 pm

amother Winterberry wrote:

You could toilet train a 3 yo in 4 or 5, but a 2 yo needs much more time. You should continue putting him on the potty at home and try to fully toilet train him over yt, even then he might not be ready. Speaking from experience as all my kids were toilet trained by 20 months. I didnt send to playgroup for quite a while over the toilet trainning period (I kept them home for the summer).

Yes I was going to basically say this. OP: Your child is too young to train in such a short time. And it’s too much to ask of the teacher who has to take care of so many other children to have so much of a part in that toilet training. Either keep your kid home for a very big big chunk of time to really get it set in or wait until they are older OR train them for at home but at day care/ school they wear a diaper.

(I’ve been a teacher for that age and a parent of kids who toilet trained when they were 2- but I was home full time with them so that’s how we did it).

amother

Geranium

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 11:35 pm

As a morah who's dealing with this right now: a mom came to the first day and told me her dc is toilet trained and tells her when he has to go. Perfect. But, guess what, so far every day he's had 2 accidents... He will absolutely not tell us when he has to go. When we ask if he needs the bathroom, he'll say no. I've learned to say "come, it's time to use the bathroom", and I just take him by the hand and walk him over. Sometimes he's successful, sometimes he misses the toilet and gets it all over the seat, walls, etc.
He may be toilet trained at home, but he's certainly not ready for the bathroom at school. You have to remember school is so new for him, he/she might be shy to tell the morahs, even if he/she can tell you with no problem. And, as others said, when we have to keep changing accidents, it really disrupts the class. And also, it's really embarrassing for the child Sad

just something to keep in mind...

amother

Blue

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 11:38 pm

From what your describing your kid isn’t trained. It’s too much responsibility for the teacher and it’s an unfair expectation you have. Keep it up slowly and he will get there but don’t pressure the teacher.

amother

Banana

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 11:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

If your child has "more makes than misses" they are no where near trained.

Lots of around 2 year olds are willing to use the bathroom and can be "trained" to make in it......some of the time. however they are not "trained" until they are consistently verbalizing (or signing) the need and trying to hold it in until a bathroom is available. We're talking not "expecting" any accidents - though it's normal for a few to happen

Two in a row on the first day. No.

And honestly, you owe the teacher an apology and an ice coffee for putting her in this position on the first day of school. Cleaning up after accidents is a huge job, especially in a class situation where she has to dry and disinfect while keeping the others away. You seem to be very cavalier that she should "clean up as necessary"......yeah, there will be accidents when kids train and even for a while after, but only a few per kid.

Also, take this as a lesson to:
1) ask the morah the policy before you sign up.
2) ask again before you start and understand what they consider "trained". This way you don't waste your time.

I know. It is very hard for a working mother to train their child to the point where the morah can take over. I feel your pain. I'm facing my 9th rodeo this year. But that is also why many wait until almost three when more kids have the awareness to move through these stages quickly.

Keep taking your child to the bathroom at home so they stay used to using it and bide your time.

Hotzlocha!

amother

White

Wed, Sep 07 2022, 11:53 pm

It’s not the teacher’s responsibility to potty train. There are too many children to be able to keep track of keeping a frequent bathroom schedule. Most teachers take a group of kids to the bathroom 1-2 times a day. Otherwise, the child needs to be capable of communicating when they need to go. I always waited for a 2 week break/ vacation to potty train my children. You can do it in the summer, over Pesach, Succos , mid winter break and so on.

amother

Banana

Thu, Sep 08 2022, 12:33 am

I came back here to encourage you OP,

While I don't think your child is trained and ready to go to morah in underwear yet, he may very well be ready to be trained. It's just going to take more time.

If he is not scared and is aware of when he needs the bathroom, you can keep plugging away. It may take several weeks of accidents in your house but you'll either see them diminish or they won't.

If the accidents don't lighten up, cut your losses and put him in a diaper, but keep taking him to the bathroom so he maintains his confidence. You can try again in a few months.

familyfirst

Thu, Sep 08 2022, 1:14 am

You’re kidding, right?
Do you know how much energy and time it takes to train your own child? Most of my kids were not anywhere near ready till deep into their threes. Some kids are like that. To ask a Morah to clean up multiple accidents a day is a bit much.
If I were the Morah, I would prefer changing the wet diaper then clean up after accidents.

amother

Crocus

Thu, Sep 08 2022, 1:29 am

amother OP wrote:

Please only respond if you don’t think kids need to beg to potty train before even considering starting.

We spent the break between camp and school (4 days for us) working on potty training my 2 year old.

He’s my first so I’m wondering if that’s a normal response from the morah. I’m also wondering if it’s reasonable to expect her to keep him out of a diaper/pull up except for nap time and just deal with the accidents as necessary, making sure to prompt him more. There’s a younger 3s group in the same building so there has to be some protocol somewhere about kids who aren’t using diapers anymore.

Any advice is welcome because I know if there isn’t a united front about this, it will take forever to actually get it down.

If a child is ready 4 days should be enough that you aren't expecting regular accidents. A one off once a day maybe but not "oh, he has more makes than misses"

In a hygienic setting I think it is unreasonable to expect the morah to be cleaning up after him constantly. She can remind him to go - that's reasonable, if he has the odd accident, she can change him but to expect her to spend her morning cleaning up his messes is not reasonable.

Don't forget she has other kids to watch and can't spend all her time tuned in to his non-verbal clues. Think about it from the perspective of other parents. If she is investing so much time in reminding, taking, changing him, how is she supposed to look after everyone else?

I have 9 kids. My youngest is 2 and currently potty training. I trained him in 3 days over the weekend and he has had only 2 accidents from Sunday until today. If he was having 2 accidents a day, after a week I would consider that a child who is not ready yet and would wait a while.

To add: I do think that a child needs to be able to either ask or just go in order to be trained. Having an adult micromanaging his potty needs will make him slower to gain control not quicker. He will rely on them not on his body cues.

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