Whole communities are in mortal danger

Clarissa

Fri, Jun 13 2008, 9:17 am

Tamiri wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

But I think each and every one of us can think of terrible situations out there that would merit attention and some sort of act of generosity or prayer or something -- someone who is seriously ill, children growing up in abject poverty, people dealing with mental illness in their homes, people who have been widowed or orphaned. I could go on and on.

Please do. What's stopping you?

The fear of being even more boring than I am now.

freidasima

Sat, Jun 14 2008, 2:56 pm

Tamiri, it's always going to be the same people over and over again...those of us here....or at least some of us and definitely the MOs and chardalnikim among us and a few of the non Israelis who are into Israel (not just the Eretz Yisroel ones) and caring about all kinds of people...

But yes, everything mentioned here should be thought about and something should be done...some of us here are already going, we have misheberachs for the chayalim needarim and for Pollard every shabbos and chag, we give to sderot because we have kids from the community who are in the garin torani there ( I posted that in your other thread) and so we have been giving for ten years..

but here's a story about the kind of stuff that the bochurim did, just not so risky, but now that I think of it.... a long time ago there were travel agents here in Yerushalayim who sold tickets to a lot of the yeshivas, and to others such as us who heard about them. They had a system with one of the airlines that doesn't exist anymore from here that someone going to America who would be willing to only take one suitcase instead of two would get a hundred dollar discount. That was a lot of money and the second "suitcase" that would be put on the plane as theirs would be something that someone wanted to send to America...you didn't have anything to do with the suitcase, but it was instead of yours, you never saw it, never picked it up, nothing....when I think of it today it makes my stomach turn...what was in those suitcases???hopefully nothing problematic but still....and we all did it to save a buck, especially when the travel agent was frum and we didn't have anything directly to do with the suitcase...

Crayon210

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 1:57 am

Unfortunately the terror in EY has been going on for over sixty years Sad

, getting worse in the last ten years. We live with the unfortunate reality that things (lo aleinu) happen in EY.

This news item with the boys in Japan was kind of "sensational"-unusual, caught people's attention, etc.

It sounds like you're trying to make a political debate out of this issue (comments re: shtetlach and yidden, etc), which I think is inappropriate. Just because people don't post it here doesn't mean that they don't do things whenever CHV there's any sort of attack. Lots of people say a quick kapital tehillim, put money in the tzedaka box, etc. Not posting about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

And for the record, the thread discussing what are you doing for the boys in Japan has nothing to do with what people are doing for the boys in Japan. I looked at it and thought of splitting it, but all that would be left is the OP (and perhaps one other post) LOL

. So don't worry, no one is falling all over themselves with hachlatos for those boys.

Basically, I just think your premise is wrong. This has nothing to do with Zionism or Modern Orthodoxy, it's not that deep.

Tamiri

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 3:34 am

Crayon210 wrote:

Basically, I just think your premise is wrong. This has nothing to do with Zionism or Modern Orthodoxy, it's not that deep.

I totally agree with you Crayon. It's just that EY and what goes on here is not even a blip on the radar, as I have posted before.
Now, if you have a great deal on a sheital, I am sure it will generate deep interest.
As I wrote, it bears comparison to years gone by. I don't say people have to DO anything, but at least write about it. That people care, say tehillim, have rachmanus. Anything.

sarahd

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 4:47 am

FTR, the gedolim and rabbonim all over the world came out with kol koreis at the beginning of the current intifada (is it still considered to be going on?) asking that everyone say 3 kapitlach tehillim and undertake to improve themselves in various areas for the zechus of the Jews of EY. Did no one here ever hear of that?

In most shuls that I know, Shacharis during the week ends with communal recitation of tehillim. Many people did undertake self-improvement. The intifada has basically been brought under control.

What more were you wanting people to do?

HooRYou

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 5:50 am

Tamri, I am not sure if you are being fair. IF I want information or updates on the matzav here I would go to a reliable news source I wouldn't go to Imamother and since most of them live in CHU"L they would most likely only be able to give me a version of the news that got from some other news source. On the other hand these women are wearing their sheitels, pushing their strollers a cooking themselves every day. I know if I come here I am looking for every day info or entertainment. It makes sense that the topics here would be about mundane matters since most of us do mundane things most of the day.

Personally I think that the range of tragedies we are seeing is engineered so that everyone should find something that wakes them up and inspires them to action. Whether you are moved by natural disaters (tsunami, earthquakes, floods, etc.), community affiars (insert your favorite communal plague or scnadal here), the matzav in E"Y or the plight of 3 buchorim in Japan as long as you don't care only about yours (I.e. who cares about those guys in the Japanese prison we have to do somethign abotu greenhouse gasses!!!) then what you are doing is caring about and trying to help Klall Yisroel. There is a reason we have such a wide variety and deep levels of suffering now. No one can care equally about everything but will probably feel very strongly about 1-2 things and hopefully at least care about the others.

TzenaRena

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 8:26 am

I'm pretty shocked that anyone could be apathetic to the plight of the three bochurim, whether what they did (unknowingly) was illegal or not is completely irrelevant, and has no bearing on their zchus to be redeemed. Pidyon Shevuyim is one of the greatest mitzvos and was always dealt with a sense of urgency by Gedolei Yisroel, many who spent their entire lives in fulfillment of this mitzvah.

Knocking this mitzvah is not going to bring about an increase in other mitzvos, and that's what proves that the motive is from the "left side".

Atali

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 9:41 am

TzenaRena wrote:

Right, and this is why I think this thread is getting so few responses, because your message is getting lost by your implication that this is either a charedi vs. DL thing or an Israeli vs. everyone else thing.

There is no inherent reason that one cannot daven or take on something for both, and I think that many people would be happy to do so.

amother

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 10:17 am

Just wanted you all to know that I DO care, about the children in Sderot... I think unfortunately people have a hard time separating the political aspect of Israel and the humane part - and everything related to Israel crises is chalked up to politics, when there is a much more critical side to it.

Also, want to point out that I am chareidi, from America, and I wanted to tell you, - although you are getting few responses, I'm glad you posted it. People read, so we can hope it opens their eyes and see children just like their own live with those hardships.

I read these posts about 5 times before I decided to respond. Not always does a low response mean that people don't care.

Tamiri

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 10:22 am

amother wrote:

I just posted it, stam. Not Chariedi vs. anything else. Just to show that there is general apathy and I don't understand why. We went through the Shoah; here we have people enduring daily mortal danger yet I did not see it mention more than a handful (at most) times on Imamother. Curious.

Clarissa

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 10:28 am

TzenaRena wrote:

Nobody is expressing total apathy to the plight of the three boys, but it's totally normal to quantify sympathy. We don't know the whole story, but if they knew what they were doing, that makes them felons. It's totally normal to say that I'm more sympathetic toward certain people than others. Right here on this site, several of us have loved ones with cancer. Some have relatives who are dying. Some have children who are disabled. Some read about situations in the world that are incredibly painful, that make us feel that countless people are suffering indescribable tragedies. So it's totally normal to say that some situations have greater emotional impact than others.

There are certain everyday situations that can give us great anxiety and heartbreak. They can be overshadowed by contemplating what someone else is going through (something far greater), but sometimes they can't.

You can daven for whomever and whatever you want. You can give to whatever cause you find most deserving. But don't be surprised to hear some people reacting more strongly to one situation than another. As part of our everyday feelings, morals, emotions, culturally guided ethos and our limited amount of emotional energy, we are always going to be quantifying which things deserve our limited energy and money.

Crayon210

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 12:46 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

Basically, I just think your premise is wrong. This has nothing to do with Zionism or Modern Orthodoxy, it's not that deep.

You can feel free to think that EY doesn't register on people's radars, but you'd be wrong about that. Just because we don't live there and don't fly a flag doesn't mean we don't care about the people who live there and what happens over there.

The idea of tehillim versus shaitel has been discussed before. People come here to relax, not necessarily to catch up on the goings on in EY and say Tehillim. There's Tehillim time and there's Imamother time, and they don't have to be the same time.

What's there to say? I don't broadcast who and what I say Tehillim for (except for Star Havah's mother, may she have a refuah shleima immediately), because that's not why I come on Imamother.

gryp

Sun, Jun 15 2008, 2:18 pm

Tamiri wrote:

amother wrote:

Personally, there's a limit to how many times we can say the same thing over and over again. Or read the same thing over and over. I don't do more than a glance each day at what goes on in Israel anymore. It hurts too much. The Israeli government is suicidal and I have to forcefully detach myself emotionally and pretend all is well or I'd have my days ruined over and over again.

And being accused of not caring because I don't agree with Zionism or because I choose not to live there is not only hurtful but over-the-top ridiculous. That makes about as much sense as my 4 yr old's request for me to wash out his cup between his ice cubes and drink of water. Surprised