What would you do if you were Ukrainian?

↑ BatyaEsther

Mon, Jan 09 2023, 4:49 pm

iyar wrote:

Our situation is very different today than it was in Nazi Europe.
Many families then escaped or hid, though it was mainly single young men who joined partisans. If you study that time period historically you'll notice most of the families who escaped either had large sums of money or family in the West or both. Many of the ones who stayed behind literally didn't have the money to pay for the train tickets and ship crossings to get to safety with all their children.
There were also cases of the best laid plans not working out. Families fled from Germany and Poland to Belgium and France. Hitler followed them and sent them to the gas chambers from there. Families hid and were betrayed and turned over to the Nazis. Anne Frank's family is probably the most famous. People took their life savings and fled from Germany on the St Louis. They were turned away by immigration authorities in Cuba, the U.S. and Canada. Many of them died after they were forced to return to Europe.
The situation today is totally different. Poverty isn't as rampant even in Eastern Europe. Most people could get on a train and get out at the start of the war. Neighboring countries welcomed them with open arms offering food, clothing and places to stay. Israel airlifted thousands of Ukrainians and helped them settle in Israel after the fighting started, a big percentage of them not Jewish. There was no State of Israel sending planes to pick up refugees in 1939.
If I had the money for the train to get myself and my kids out I'd have done that even if I had to leave my husband behind. I know that even if I didn't want to, he'd want me to get our kids out. If my kids were all adults I'd encourage them to leave but I'd stay with my husband. He's a smart guy though. In the chaos of the start of the war there were men who managed to get out. I'm dreaming he would have been one of the lucky ones.
Of course we can never really know what would happen or what we'd decide in any given situation. Most importantly none of us know what's decreed for us and how long we have here. In the end it's not in our hands.

It depends on what year you are referencing. In 1933/34, even 35/36, it was a whole lot easier to get out. Hitler wanted you out. People didn’t want to leave because they had lives and thought things would improve. There were renowned Jews in every area of life, including government media, finance, and science. They couldn’t fathom what would come. Hindsight is always 20-20.

↑ sequoia ↓

Mon, Jan 09 2023, 4:54 pm

giftedmom wrote:

Leave with the kids and have dh smuggle over the border

Again, you can’t assume you would be successful, otherwise everyone with money would do it.

By and large, men can’t leave.

It’s very unrealistic to think the entire world operates the way that you’d like.

Chickensoupprof

Mon, Jan 09 2023, 5:01 pm

Hmm... I think I would have fled together with DH in the beginning already. But somewhere my heroic fantasy I would love to see myself as a partisan fighting the Russians.

↑ sequoia

Mon, Jan 09 2023, 5:04 pm

Chickensoupprof wrote:

Hmm... I think I would have fled together with DH in the beginning already. But somewhere my heroic fantasy I would love to see myself as a partisan fighting the Russians.

You don’t have to be a partisan Smile

We have women in our armed forces, including my awesome friend who came from France when the war began.

↑ iyar

Mon, Jan 09 2023, 10:07 pm

BatyaEsther wrote:

That’s true.
Before Putin had his army drop the first bombs Ukrainians were for the most part in denial. Western media and political leaders kept warning Russia was going to invade Ukraine and a lot (most?) Ukrainians laughed at them and explained why Putin was bluffing and would never do that.

↑ chestnut

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 12:18 am

iyar wrote:

No one expected it to really happen, outside of Ukraine as well. Warnings don't always materialize, also iirc, the timelines kept on being pushed.

Rappel

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 12:21 am

If it's Ukraine? I would leave with the children. DH and I would both want me to take them to safety.

If it's Israel? We all bunker down and arm up. We're going nowhere.

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ETA: I'm a member of Rescuers without Borders, and I signed up to go to Ukraine to provide medical aid. They haven't needed me, so I haven't gone. But I wouldn't put my kids there for any reason, and there should be a parent with them always.

WitchKitty

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 2:17 am

I always have a similar question in the back of my mind. I have American citizenship, which as of today is welcome in many places.
Dh and ds don't.
If something happened and we had to run, somewhere, somewhere I was able to go and they wouldn't- I don't know what I would do. It sounds terrifying.
We are in the process of getting them American visas, but even if that would be enough- what if my next children wouldn't have visas? Would we leave them by someone? With one of us?
As to Ukraine, I feel that I can't bear to leave my husband. If he was in the army anyway and I wouldn't be seeing him, so I would leave, because there's no difference how far we are apart, just being apart. But if he is home but can't leave the country, I don't think I would leave him.
Of course, you said maybe some men were able to leave because they look very young, and dh looks like a teenager still. So we might try that route.

naomi2

Tue, Jan 10 2023, 8:27 am

I would have left with everyone in my whole family at the very beginning when the Jewish community outside Ukraine was able to help. I would definitely not be there now under any circumstance