Lakewood, NJ vs. NYC

Ema of 5

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:22 pm

amother Cantaloupe wrote:

Why would bayswater be ruled out because of bussing to the 5 towns? So many of the local schools are in far rockaway which is nyc.
Ateres miriam, tag, bby
For special education schools, are you considering public school? If not, then yes, most yeshiva special education schools are in the 5 towns. Specifically gesher and kulanu and hasc. Gesher is much higher functioning. But you may be able to pay a driver or another parent who lives near you. You can try to sue nyc to get tuition covered.
And you can get so many services through opwdd, medicaid, tons of doctors.

Another thing to keep in mind. I’ve never had special Ed bus service into the 5T, but I did have a child in Brooklyn. He got special Ed busing. So even if you don’t live in Brooklyn you can still send kids to school (gen or special Ed) in Brooklyn.

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:23 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

There ARE buses to schools IN FR. If your child has an iep and is entitled to go on the bus, then you can get special Ed bus service for them even if they go to school in nassau county.

This is an excellent point. You are correct. And being that I work in public school, a diagnosis of autism together with a doctor's note should be enough to add iep bussing. But it seems nyc is out due to budget. I wish there was a way to help OP as it really would get her all she wants from a location

amother

Royalblue

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:24 pm

Maybe post your rental budget so we can brainstorm better. You say bayswater is too expensive how far off is it? what rental bracket would work.

Ema of 5

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:25 pm

nicole81 wrote:

I didn't read past the first page, where I believe someone said Lakewood has more schools for kids who need services. I hope I read that wrong... It's totally not true. Also, it's much, much easier to get NYC to pay for a private placement for a special ed student. And if you can prove that a school anywhere in NYC or even outside (like LI, NJ) is the appropriate environment for your kid, NYC will also provide the transportation. You'll need some guidance to go through the process but it's fairly straightforward. The NYCDOE is overwhelmed with claims for private placement and lately they're settling immediately or doing nothing at impartial hearings.

Special schooling, if Jewish, is going to be your #1 expense. Like 50k/child/year if not funded. Better to be in a district that will likely pay for the education. And to be in a place that has more organizations to help with navigating this process.

The only issue with Bayswater is that public transportation is difficult if you want to get to other areas of the city. But it's there.

ETA: there are other areas in the city with nice communities, too. You can try Marine Park, Mill Basin, Sheepshead Bay, and even Flatbush (all in Brooklyn). I've found that community, or lack thereof, can be very centered around the particular shul you attend.

$50,000 is cheap….most special Ed schools are much more

Ema of 5

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:29 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Maybe post your rental budget so we can brainstorm better. You say bayswater is too expensive how far off is it? what rental bracket would work.

Knowing a budget would definitely be helpful.
I know you said you spoke to someone in Bayswater, but if you want to speak to someone else, I’m always here.

Kiwi13

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:42 pm

amother Lightgray wrote:

I am very familiar with Kochvei. A lot has changed over the past 3 years and it is now a phenomenal program that I'd recommend to anyone who fits the right profile. Kochvei is for boys AND girls (girls division has been renamed Shira Chana) with high-functioning ASD or similar challenges. Grades K-3 only. It's a transition program, meaning that the goal is to prepare and transition students to mainstream yeshiva settings. Realistically, about 33% end up making the jump.

Kochvei and SCHI serve very different populations, with no overlap.

Definitely not a good choice for OP's kids.

OP, I am very knowledgeable in the Lakewood special ed scene. Don't come here, there aren't enough good options for you. If you can't get into SCHI (very possible, there's a HUGE waiting list that moves VERY slowly) and your sons aren't a good candidate for Center (a more academic program than SCHI, but they are VERY selective about who they take and are wary of extreme behaviors), there are NO good options. Public school (past Linden) is AWFUL. And the Lakewood BOE has really cracked down on out of district placements to frum schools, so you'll be stuck in an out of district school.

And...all this is provided that you find affordable housing in Lakewood which is next to impossible. There are almost no apartments available, except in Westgate, which has had issues in the past. Rents for 3 bedroom basements are about $2200/month. Rents for small houses in random neighborhoods are minimum $3000 unless you find something so disgusting, nobody wants to rent it. A decent townhouse runs in the $4000 range. There is rental assistance available, with a waiting list of several YEARS. If you go to Jackson, Toms River, Brick or Manchester, you can find a decent, cheap rental, but you will have no access to Lakewood special ed services unless you hire a lawyer and fight, fight, fight...and maybe you'll succeed.

Also, in terms of medical care, while FamilyCare is very comprehensive, it doesn't cover many good doctors, and only doctors in NJ. Lakewood has a dearth of decent doctors because there are no good hospitals nearby. The only good doctors in the area are typically frum doctors who are willing to exchange the prestige and benefits of working with a good hospital for the conveniences and benefits of living in the Lakewood community.

I have a lot more to say on the topic, if you're interested, let me know and I'll PM you.

Edited to remove a personal identifying detail.

I was afraid of this, but thank you. B”H my kids don’t have any extreme behaviors. My younger son hits his siblings sometimes or pulls his sister’s hair or throws an occasional toy, but so do a lot of 5-year-olds. In general he’s a very well behaved child who works very hard with all of his therapists and teachers. He needs significant OT, PT, speech, and special Ed, but he’s well behaved and has a long attention span, all things considered. He needs individual prompting however. I don’t think he could get through a school day without it. But it’s something we’re all working towards. He’s still in diapers and considered globally developmentally delayed. Can’t sing the ABC song by himself, doesn’t know most of the letter or number symbols yet, can’t reliably count much past 10. There are cognitive issues and it’s hard to know the full extent of it yet. But he is well behaved. The biggest problem he faces in a school setting is his tendency to shut down and go blank-faced when he gets overwhelmed. In the past this was misconstrued as either being bored or possible absent seizures. He doesn’t interact well (or at all) with other kids besides his siblings. He does parallel play and we’re reaching a point where he can play with other kids with a teacher assisting. He tends to be extremely rigid in play (and in everything), and he gets stuck on parts of a task running on loop, so progress is moving slow. He’s verbal, which is a miracle, BH for intensive EI! But what he says often runs on loop as well and he’s hard to understand because of a severe speech issue which is likely caused by abnormalities in his throat. He has autism and 22q11.2

My older son is 7, repeating 1st grade and still struggling. He’s socially and emotionally immature and struggles with academics due to rigidity and inability to move on to the next lesson. At school he holds everything inside and then he comes home and explodes at the first trigger. He’s come a long way (both boys have). He takes meds, which help a lot but not enough. He’s also internalized a lot of trauma this past year, unfortunately. I’m gunning hard to get him everything he needs. A lot of my decisions at the moment are centered around his needs in particular. He has never done well in social settings. Lots of anxiety. Doesn’t have a clue how to make and keep friends. Gravitates toward much younger children and then feels embarrassed that he’s the oldest. He’s in his own world a lot of the time and teachers have expressed that he seems content there, but he complains a lot about not having friends at school and not knowing how to make any. He has autism (high functioning) and extreme ADHD (mixed type).

My daughter (age 5) is typically developing and will do well pretty much anywhere. She’s a social butterfly and I wish her social magic would rub off on me (and her brothers!). Her biggest struggles happen when I’m in the hospital. She cries bitterly every time and it breaks my heart. She’s the reason I fight harder to pull through from my worst illnesses. She’s strong and smart and capable, but if I go down, so will she. I need to keep davening that that never happens.

Anyway, that’s a summary of my kids’ situations in a nutshell. Behaviorally they’re exceptional, at least at school. But they have needs and can easily fall through the cracks if we’re not careful.

Kiwi13

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:44 pm

amother Magenta wrote:

In terms of housing, the Belz development might work. It’s in Lakewood city limits for bussing purposes as far as I’m aware, rent is $1500 for a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom basement. The crowd is chassidish with some random people stuck in who are there for the cheap housing.

Interesting. This could work! How out of place would I be, though?

mha3484

Mon, Feb 06 2023, 10:57 pm

If you could afford chicago my son spent 2nd grade in a jewish class in a therapeutic school. Some similarities and some differences to your seven year old. He made a ton of progress there.

amother

Lemonchiffon

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 5:44 pm

I live in westgate and am BH very happy. You’d fit in better here than you would in belz. Maybe contact special childrens center to see if they would be able to help. They offer transportation to all of their services.

Kiwi13

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:27 pm

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

How much is rent in West Gate?

amother

Teal

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:29 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

How much is rent in West Gate?

A lot of apartments are HUD which means that if you quality, the government pays for most of it. They are 2 flour, 5 bedroom mostly
Tbh I cud be wrong, don't live there but this is what I heard

amother

Taupe

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:31 pm

amother Teal wrote:

A lot of apartments are HUD which means that if you quality, the government pays for most of it. They are 2 flour, 5 bedroom mostly
Tbh I cud be wrong, don't live there but this is what I heard

Isn’t the waiting list for Lakewood hud years long?

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:33 pm

amother Lemonchiffon wrote:

Center has a school but idk if it's a good fit for your needs. They're a bit specific about what profile they take. Their respite services are open to all regardless of where your child goes. But it's important to figure out schooling before working on respite.
For what it's worth, if you are open to public school (not saying that you should be) Jackson which is next to Lakewood is supposed to have an excellent special ed system.
But NJ has NONE of the respite funding and resources that ny has!

amother

Teal

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:35 pm

amother Taupe wrote:

Isn’t the waiting list for Lakewood hud years long?

No idea all I know is that all 5 of my friends who live in westgate are on hud and barely pay rent

DustyDiamonds

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:42 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

Bayswater is mainly ruled out because I can’t afford it. I don’t know what I was thinking by trying to open NYC back up. Sorry everyone.

Hi kiwi!

I’m going to disagree with this.

I obviously haven’t run the numbers, and I may be wrong! But:

If you have high rent in Bayswater, but cheap tuition and free access to high quality medical care…

…isn’t that better than living in a city with lower rent, where you’d have high tuition and lots of medical bills?

I truly think you need to run all the numbers, not just rent.

And there’s lots of frum organizations in NYC who can help you get social services, that can save you weeks of time and mountains of paperwork.

Imagine paying, I’m making up numbers, $3,000 in rent in Bayswater or Brooklyn, and all special needs schooling and all medical expenses are free! And the NYC transportation system, which is a hop or jump from Bayswater, is super cheap and can get you anywhere around the city. And a free, beautiful, soup kitchen in Brooklyn, in case times are very tough. Lots of organizations that offer free or super cheap clothing/shoes/food/ holiday-specific things to those who’ve fallen on challenging times.

Now imagine paying $1200 for rent in Cincinnati (I made up numbers) and needing to drive many miles to each doctor appointment, and the struggle to settle for the Medicaid doctor who is free versus the doctor who specializes in your kids’ condition who charges hundreds for each appointment. And the extra shadows or tutors you’d need to fill in the gaps in the lower quality education.

Wishing you all the best!💕

ETA: and didn’t Mommy3b2c post that she’d give you free membership to her Sunday gymnastics program if you’re in NYC?😊

Last edited by DustyDiamonds on Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Emerald

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 6:45 pm

Lakewood is a terrible choice for so many reasons, but I’m not convinced Brooklyn is better. I wish there was some magical option for you guys 😢

amother

Mistyrose

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 7:06 pm

Kiwi13 wrote:

How much is rent in West Gate?

Not sure current rates but they have many sizes and it’s a range. It’s usually way cheaper than everywhere else. Also there are many divorced people, special needs kids and not yeshivish families. It’s very diverse. And the best part is it has its own stores so you have super easy access to a grocery, pharmacy and pizza shop. The others are clothing and stuff like that.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 7:06 pm

I think belz would be a terrible idea… you don’t need to feel isolated and different now. You need a community. Are you absolutely sure bayswater can’t work? There are cheaper rentals there. But again I don’t know what ur budget is

Ema of 5

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 8:01 pm

amother Royalblue wrote:

Kiwi, if you post your budget those of us in Bayswater can help you out with your search.

amother

Coffee

Tue, Feb 07 2023, 8:12 pm

amother Mistyrose wrote:

Agree if you decide on Lakewood , westgate definitely makes the most sense