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Forum
-> Relationships
-> Guests
imaima
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 Sun, May 21 2023, 9:25 am
| 613mitzvahgirl wrote: | | I honestly have a few friends that are totally dirty but their midos are amazing.. one friend recently invited us/ they are such nice ppl, but their house was so dirty.. I didn’t realize how dirty they were until it was time to wash.. once we were all In the kitchen it looked like a war zone.. dishes were piled high, one sink was over flowing.. the counter had dirty dishes on it from Thursdays supper of baked ziti, you were able to tell when you saw the plates, there were dirty cups on the counter- you were able to see half cup fulls of drinks of milk and orange juice, the towels had oil stains that were fresh when it was time for washing.. we asked her for knapkins as I told her I only use knapkinds in other ppls houses.. bh she knew that, there was a hamper on dirty clothes sitting in the kitchen.. I have to say bh they are really really such sweet ppl, just not neat and organized sadly.. snd they gave us plastic dishes and cups to use.. and my husband and I and our kids hardly ate.. it’s such a shame but HaShem saw that we were trying and she saw that.. I don’t think we will be going there for at least until she cleans up.. in the meantime I’m going to daven for them.. Bc it is a sickness of being this way and I know nobody’s perfect, but at the same time we aren’t the ones to judge and we aren’t.. we just look at how HaShem made such wonderful ppl that ppl shouldn’t be so quick to judge.. |
I hate it that people have to go into the kitchen to wash. I don’t really think that what you saw means anything. They prioritized shabbos over cleaning after dinner and you got to see that. They invited you on Wednesday and someone got sick in between. Instead of judging and fake-davening, try to be dan le kaf zechus.
It‘s hard to have everything perfect at all times
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amother
Amber
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:25 am
| amother Nasturtium wrote: | | Stack them as neatly as possible and make sure that the surrounding areas are tidy. I actually have boards that slide over my counters and cover my sinks so that if there a dirty dishes in there they are covered. |
So where do you wash hands?
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amother
Nasturtium
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:35 am
As it happens I have a small sink outside the kitchen for netilat yadayim. But if I need to move the board to open the tap I do. The point is that when not in use, the sinks are covered up and the kitchen looks clean and tidy.
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amother
Jean
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:36 am
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My sister's house is super cluttered. Her husband and kids have way too much stuff in a not very big home. The furniture is pretty run down, and the wood floors needed to be refinished a decade ago. BUT. The house is clean. All the surfaces are clean, dirty dishes aren't lying around, and it smells normal. She is very hygienic, especially in her cooking. So I really don't think twice about being a gust there. When surfaces are clearly not clean, that's when I have a hard time feeling comfortable somewhere.
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amother
Amber
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:39 am
| 613mitzvahgirl wrote: | | I honestly have a few friends that are totally dirty but their midos are amazing.. one friend recently invited us/ they are such nice ppl, but their house was so dirty.. I didn’t realize how dirty they were until it was time to wash.. once we were all In the kitchen it looked like a war zone.. dishes were piled high, one sink was over flowing.. the counter had dirty dishes on it from Thursdays supper of baked ziti, you were able to tell when you saw the plates, there were dirty cups on the counter- you were able to see half cup fulls of drinks of milk and orange juice, the towels had oil stains that were fresh when it was time for washing.. we asked her for knapkins as I told her I only use knapkinds in other ppls houses.. bh she knew that, there was a hamper on dirty clothes sitting in the kitchen.. I have to say bh they are really really such sweet ppl, just not neat and organized sadly.. snd they gave us plastic dishes and cups to use.. and my husband and I and our kids hardly ate.. it’s such a shame but HaShem saw that we were trying and she saw that.. I don’t think we will be going there for at least until she cleans up.. in the meantime I’m going to daven for them.. Bc it is a sickness of being this way and I know nobody’s perfect, but at the same time we aren’t the ones to judge and we aren’t.. we just look at how HaShem made such wonderful ppl that ppl shouldn’t be so quick to judge.. |
You seem very sincere but your post still comes across as really judgy. It's not necessarily sickness, it could just be lack of free time and lack of cleaning help. Everyone has different strengths. Some people can manage the same schedule andnhave their house looking great and others can't.
Why do you think you know best where the laundry hamper should go in their house? Why is it wrong of them to serve guests on plastic? Just because the house is flying doesn't mean they don't know how to prepare food in a sanitary manner. There are just so many assumptions being made here and it's so condescending that you feel your have to daven for them because they're standards are not the same as yours.
For the record, that could have been my house you're describing, except the hand towels, which are always fresh.
My counters are disinfected before I cook anything. Hands are always clean and all cooking urensils are clean. After cooking, the kitchen may look.lile a disaster but that doesn't mean my food isn't safe to eat.
My house is sometimes a mess when we have guests, but I only have guests who don't judge. My guests always come back and often ask when they can come again.
Do I wish my house were cleaner? Sure. I don't have cleaning help, and there are lots of factors that all affect the state of my house and right now it's the best we cam manage.
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amother
Beige
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:40 am
| amother Sand wrote: | | Am I the only one who has half a shabbos of dirty dishes on my counters when we hit shabbos lunch? We don’t wash dishes on shabbos so I have all the Friday night dishes on one counter and all the breakfast dishes on another. What am I supposed to do with them? Are people really judging me for that? |
I'm 100% certain poeple don't mean this kind of mess.
I use fancy plastic as I only have a fleishig regular basic dinnerware set. I don't have room for another set in my smallish kitchen so we use fancy plastic. We buy in bulk (and keep extras in garage) so it's pretty cheap.
I don't like going away to eat as I'm not comfortable eating other people's foods. There are a select few houses I'd eat in. (I rarely eat out. I'd rather eat scrambled I made myself or my husks/kids made if I was sick or limited time to cook than buy takeout. Also kids alergies make takeout not so fun. Doable but tricky.)
But my house isn't so tidy either. I have very little storage space and an old house.
My toilets are scrubbed minimum 2x a week. Plus quick wipedowns in between. Because it's important to me. Not because it's a must. Everyone has their level of comfort. I don't judge other ppl for messy houses. If a house is very dirty I assume the owners/inhabitants are struggling to mange all of those responsibilities/workload and probably depressed/Mental health issues that prevent them for caring for it. Not Because this type of house is indicative of it, at busy times in my life my standards have dropped DRAMATICALLY (because ppl and feelings and peace is MORE important than any cleanliness/tidiness standards). But rather because if my house or anyone's I know of was in that state they'd never invite guest.
One of my sisters would leave her shabbos dishes in the sink until Wednesday when the cleaning lady came. She rarely cooked. And would mostly warm up store bought fish sticks or breaded chicken nuggets every night for dinner.
She always claimed her kids are picky eaters and wont eat anything else but somehow they always ate my food. Cutlets, chicken on the bone So when we'd spend the day together, I'd clean the kitchen and cook us all a wholesome meal. My kids can't have those things due to allergies. She loved the yummy food. Her kids loved it. She has severe anxiety/panic and depression. Her house was tidy usually. It was part of her anxiety to always have a tidy (yet dirty) house. Ironically, now that she's really come thru her struggles her house is VERY messy but very clean. 😀
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amother
Nasturtium
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:55 am
I think we can all understand that are so many reasons why a house may be messy, and or dirty.
However, most people are going to be put off eating in those kinds of homes. OP asked if she should stop inviting guests. She doesn't have to stop inviting them, but she needs to be aware that many people won't be comfortable eating there no matter how much they empathize with her housekeeping challenges.
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amother
Obsidian
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:55 am
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amother
Obsidian
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Sun, May 21 2023, 9:57 am
| amother Sand wrote: | | Am I the only one who has half a shabbos of dirty dishes on my counters when we hit shabbos lunch? We don’t wash dishes on shabbos so I have all the Friday night dishes on one counter and all the breakfast dishes on another. What am I supposed to do with them? Are people really judging me for that? |
I also have, DH says not to wash dishes. I hide them in the bathtub and dishwasher but still a lot remain. Oh well. I bet guests think I'm lazy but they prefer the day and not Friday night- usually.... Too bad/ right?
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tichellady
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:09 am
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you can have guests as long as the food is sanitary and the bathroom is decently clean ( in my opinion). other peoples messes and clutter is their problem, not the issue of the guest
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amother
Maize
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:13 am
Ok guess I'm never having guests.
Guess Hashem doesn't want me doing hachnasas orchim
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ora_43
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:20 am
| amother Sand wrote: | | Am I the only one who has half a shabbos of dirty dishes on my counters when we hit shabbos lunch? We don’t wash dishes on shabbos so I have all the Friday night dishes on one counter and all the breakfast dishes on another. What am I supposed to do with them? Are people really judging me for that? |
Same. These posts are stressing me out a bit. Y'all the difference between completely 100% clean and filthy - cluttered counters with crusty food, gross smells, and fruit flies, overflowing sinks, dirty sticky floor - is like eight hours, tops, in a house full of slightly-messy children.
Of course clean up if people are coming over, but also, if you see a filthy living space it doesn't necessarily mean they are messy people who live in filth. It could have been clean that morning and might be clean again that night.
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amother
Catmint
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:21 am
In my old house our next door neighbor was the loveliest person.
But her house was so dirty. Her fingernails were long and dirty. She had pets that roamed the kitchen. There was dust and grime everywhere.
My dh is pretty compulsively clean and we went there once for a shabbos meal and he was really really uncomfortable.
And after that meal, whenever she invited us for a meal, I always told her to come to us because we were already having guests.
I really like her as a person. We just couldn’t eat there.
So we would have them over.
We moved to a different place a few years ago and we still text occasionally, cuz we were quite friendly.
Again. If you have guests and they are happy to come back. Your house is probably not as dirty as it seems. If you have guests once and they never come back after. It might be uncomfortable for them.
One of my relatives has a really messy house. The last time we were there, I’m pretty sure the linen wasn’t clean. Food wasn’t refrigerated properly. They only had forks at the shabbos meals. (I had to go hunt for a knife to eat my chicken? Like I don’t understand how people eat a bone in chicken thigh without a knife) the carpets were full of crumbs. It was a very uncomfortable trip for me. They did have a cleaner once a week. But it doesn’t seem like any floors got swept/vacuumed in between and with a lot of little kids it was not great. For me. Anyway, they seem happy and lovely. So different strokes for different folks.
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tichellady
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:21 am
| amother Maize wrote: | Ok guess I'm never having guests.
Guess Hashem doesn't want me doing hachnasas orchim | m
what do you think?
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imaima
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:22 am
| ora_43 wrote: | Same. These posts are stressing me out a bit. Y'all the difference between completely 100% clean and filthy - cluttered counters with crusty food, gross smells, and fruit flies, overflowing sinks, dirty sticky floor - is like eight hours, tops, in a house full of slightly-messy children.
Of course clean up if people are coming over, but also, if you see a filthy living space it doesn't necessarily mean they are messy people who live in filth. It could have been clean that morning and might be clean again that night. |
Also, even if all parts get cleaned regularly, they may not be all clean at the same time
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seven-up
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:24 am
| amother Sand wrote: | | Am I the only one who has half a shabbos of dirty dishes on my counters when we hit shabbos lunch? We don’t wash dishes on shabbos so I have all the Friday night dishes on one counter and all the breakfast dishes on another. What am I supposed to do with them? Are people really judging me for that? |
I don't wash dishes on shabbos either- you can't get clean dishes with cold water, shabbos soap and a shabbos sponge anyway and the sink gets clogged up. And even then we don't wash anything we don't need for shabbos day. So I use disposable for breakfast shabbos morning for the little kids and the dishes/pots/pans/serving pieces from Friday night seuda get divided between the dishwasher and the oven! I've learned to hide everything in my oven and then I have a spic and span kitchen. Sometimes when I have so much that I use up the oven space I stick it in a box and put it in a corner somewhere or under a desk and push the chair in over it!
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amother
DarkOrange
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:26 am
If you have dirty dishes from Friday night, stash them in the oven. Out of sight, out of mind. Wipe down the counter, and the kitchen looks pretty clean.
ETA, I see I cross posted with the ima above. But yeah, the oven is a lifesaver.
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hodeez
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:27 am
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Don't have guests if they're going to be made uncomfortable by the state of your house. If you have the energy to entertain muster the same energy into making a comfortable environment. Even if it means stuffing all the clutter into garbage bags and hiding them in a closet to be dealt with later.
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amother
Nasturtium
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:32 am
| ora_43 wrote: | Same. These posts are stressing me out a bit. Y'all the difference between completely 100% clean and filthy - cluttered counters with crusty food, gross smells, and fruit flies, overflowing sinks, dirty sticky floor - is like eight hours, tops, in a house full of slightly-messy children.
Of course clean up if people are coming over, but also, if you see a filthy living space it doesn't necessarily mean they are messy people who live in filth. It could have been clean that morning and might be clean again that night. |
I really disagree with this. Filth accumulates over time. A house may become messy over the course of a day but not filthy. Filth means that house is rarely or never cleaned at all.
Anyways, as I said before, domestically challenged people may be lovely, but I'd rather meet them for coffee than eat at their homes.
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amother
Sand
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Sun, May 21 2023, 10:32 am
| amother DarkOrange wrote: | If you have dirty dishes from Friday night, stash them in the oven. Out of sight, out of mind. Wipe down the counter, and the kitchen looks pretty clean.
ETA, I see I cross posted with the ima above. But yeah, the oven is a lifesaver. |
Unless your oven is like mine and has a light that turns on when you open it and no way to override...
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