Who can help my out of control child

amother

Bronze

Wed, May 31 2023, 9:51 am

My 6 year old daughter is not out of control, but had daily toddler style temper tantrums in addition to being a challenging kid.

We recently took her for an OT evaluation. They told me she retained some of her primary reflexes (think infant reflexes that are supposed to "go away") and it was affecting her. We had 8 OT sessions with daily exercises. I won't say she's totally calm and never has melt downs, but she has them less often and less intense. She is able to verbalize more what she wants instead of just yelling and crying and us having no clue what she wants.

I'm not saying this is what your son has, but it may be worthwhile to look into. MNRI, retained reflexes, are the types of Google searches I'd suggest.

amother

DarkPurple

Wed, May 31 2023, 10:06 am

amother Cobalt wrote:

I’m not the OP, but I’m also dealing with this, and I live in Lakewood. Any ideas?

Baila Stein (Interact Therapy) was the shaliach that was really able to help my explosive, challenging child. It was a long process but she addressed the root of the issue, unlike most typical therapists who treat the manifestations/behaviors rather than the underlying challenge, which is typically a development delay in regulation and language (although a child may seem to understand and express himself ok, in reality there is often a huge deficit in understanding intentionality which causes the child to feel attacked instead of trusting that we are on their side. )
It's a little hard to explain in short, but she is a combination language and floortime therapist. She goes back to the very earliest stages of development (typically developing babies aren't born with regulation skills, but they develop naturally over time) and builds the skills where the child is actually holding.

amother

Watermelon

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 6:35 am

amother Moccasin wrote:

OP, a year ago I could have written your post. I was ready to just give up with my child, who was just about the age of your son. We had been ring therapy, and we were getting nowhere as my child refused to participate, even after several months. We finally took our child for a psychiatric evaluation, got a diagnosis, and started medication. I know meds are not the answer for everyone but they have made a tremendous difference in the quality of my child's life, and as a result, the whole family's life. We went from complete refusal to perform any request (even as simple as please tell me what you would like for snack at school tomorrow while I was preparing lunches for the next day) and 3+ full blown on the floor crying hysterically meltdowns per day, to a child who still struggles at times, (and is definitely moodier and more defiant than typical for this age) but is mostly ok. I know how hard it is to acknowledge that your child may have a serious mental health diagnosis but it is absolutely worth getting evaluated as your child, and your whole family, can benefit so much from proper diagnosis and treatment.

Can you share the dx? My son is like OP he has a dx of ADHD and anxiety(now emerging into OCD) but my gut tells me it’s something more. Did you get a psychiatric dx? Something more than this ? If so who do you go to for such a dx? Where I live psychiatrists don’t give dx only prescribe meds (based on symptoms). Psychologist only do psych-Ed eval not psychiatric…..

amother

Nemesia

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 7:53 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

Have you read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene?

People always recommend this book. I'm sure it helps for certain kids.

Then there are kids that are looking for a fight and to explode, they are not simply just responding badly to things they dont like. Their disregulation is pushing them there. I'm not saying they want to be going crazy, but at the point that they are there it's like your 4 old crying in overtired exhaustion at 10pm - talking ain't calming them down.

Honestly, even when I read the book I thought it was a stretch that it would work for the violent son of the single mother. Very easy to have things work out in a story!

amother

Mint

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 10:48 am

Meds is the only thing that really helped. We tried multiple years of intensive therapy, parent training, lifestyle changes, and other interventions. Everything only made a very small difference but meds completely turned our family around.
However, we are struggling finding a med that works long term as after 6 months they generally stop working. But per our psychiatrist what we are experiencing is highly unusual.
Good luck

mom24b

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 10:53 am

mha3484 wrote:

I will agree to disagree with nemesia. There is a Facebook group for this method with thousand of members and these kids have real issues and have seen a lot of success. I think its worth a try at least before dismissing it.

The child has to be willing to have real reasonable conversations to utilize this approach. From my experience the kind of children OP is describing are too dysregulated, angry, anxiety filled, or in constant fight/flight mode to even have a short conversation that utilizes collaborative approach.

amother

Pink

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 11:08 am

mom24b wrote:

I agree with this.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 2:27 pm

mom24b wrote:

This topic is addressed thoroughly by Ross Greene and in the group. The overall method isn't just about the collaborative conversations. You have to allow for the child being where the child is. There's a lot of "Plan C" especially for families who are new to the approach. For the people who think he's never seen their kid--that's true, every kid is unique. But he really does make progress with the children who throw things and curse out their parents and all of that. He works with young people in the prison system as well.

BrisketBoss

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 2:35 pm

amother Nemesia wrote:

As I recall the book talks a lot about how 'in the moment' is a really ineffective time to try to solve problems. This is a universal truth. Every parent has to just do the best they can while dysregulation is actively happening.

amother

Brickred

Thu, Jun 01 2023, 3:36 pm

Do children with such behaviour usually start acting like this all of a sudden or is it a downwards spiral?

Are there clues when they are toddlers or does it appear later?

I know of one such case. The family was always in crises mode since his toddlerhood. No diagnosis or anything. But now bh he is recently married and much more settled.

amother

Watermelon

Fri, Jun 02 2023, 12:11 am

BrisketBoss wrote:

Plan C doesn’t work with this kind of child, it’s horrible for them. It increases their anxiety. They need firm limits and boundaries to feel safe. They are aware of their behaviors. My son acts out intentionally as an attempt to acquire safety by seeing an unwavering parents limit regardless of how terrible of a time he creates. Russ is the only way he feels safe. Ignoring the issue/behavior escalated it ten fold. I’m not saying CPS is a bad method but it’s not for every child and for some it actually is a bad method as the more you ignore the more anxiety it creates in child. It’s actually a very bad method for my child.

amother

Moccasin

Fri, Jun 02 2023, 12:41 pm

amother Watermelon wrote:

My child was diagnosed with depression and oppositional defiance disorder (ODD). The diagnosis was given by a psychiatrist. I've never heard of psychiatrists not diagnosing. That's literally their job, to diagnose and prescribe medications for psychiatric illnesses. Because my child was so young the diagnosis was primarily made based off of how we described our child's behaviors. But the psychiatrist did meet with our child (albeit briefly since our child would not cooperate at all due to the ODD behaviors). The psychiatrist prescribed anti-depressants and they have made a really big difference in my child's behavior. Obviously it's not like all behaviors are completely gone, but definitely a really big improvement.

amother

Seablue

Fri, Jun 02 2023, 2:28 pm

There's a frum lady who has a parenting workshop and works with parents. Rochel something I think?

Also there is a book coming out in August (not helpful in the moment but for the future) https://www.amazon.com/Calm-Ch.....14289

Following this thread because Ross Greene didn't work well for my dc either.