Why are we supposed to actively harm our health by fasting?

amother

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 7:57 pm

I am one of those who did not get a heter not to fast, even though it will cause me severe physical and mental distress. I'm seeing the posts all over this forum from women who were told similarly. Unless there's an immediate risk to your life, you have to fast. If you KNOW it will cause illness, you still have to start and get sick first before you have a heter to break it.

It's so difficult for me to understand. No it's not risking my life but why am I required to do a mitzva that harms my physical and mental health? That takes me up to a week to fully recover from?

I'm being vague here but it doesn't really matter my specifics, I've seen so many posts here with different specifics but the theme is the same: fasting will hurt me and I was still told to do it.

For those of you who are going to be like "well did you TELL your rav EVERYTHING? You have to ask the FULL SHAYLA" Yes, yes I did, and I'm happy for you if your rav is different but I know of so many others who got the same psak as I did with similar circumstances.

Is this really what fasting is supposed to be?

notshanarishona

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 7:59 pm

I also always have the same question. I typically get sick to the point of migraines, dizziness, vomiting, and sometimes worse (fainting, etc) on some fasts. I only fast 9 av and Yom Kippur and about half the time I end up breaking it. It’s really miserable.

amother

Acacia

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:00 pm

I'm not a rav so I can't answer, but it seems you've chosen to hold by a rav who holds that way. My rav says I need to break my fast as soon as I get the first sign of a headache, but I'm also under a doctor's care for migraines.

amother

Dahlia

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:01 pm

Yep, same situation. I just don't get it. I almost had to go to the ER last time I tried to fast. And I couldn't even make it through the fast, but just attempting was enough to make me horribly sick. I can't imagine this is what Hashem wants from us.

amother

Navyblue

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:11 pm

The reason we take care of our health is because Hashem said so. It's a mitzvah.

And sometimes it's a mitzvah to do the opposite...

We are reminded that our body is not our own. It belongs to Hashem. And we are ready to do whatever Hashem wants, even if it is uncomfortable or painful. That's called Mesiras Nefesh.

amother

Blue

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:24 pm

Btw. There are pills from the kollel in Toronto that make the fast a lot easier. Advil caffeine and Tylenol. You take before the fast and it starts to release after 12 hours throughout the day.

amother

Poinsettia

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:37 pm

The reason I learned that resonated with me is this.

When we fast we literally give up parts of ourselves blood flesh fat that get depleted. These parts are like a kind of korbon to Hashem.
Fasting is the only thing we have currently that acts like a korbon to Hashem.

Alternatively if you can’t fast then giving tzedaka instead is another way of giving a part of yourself to Hashem. The energy used and calories burned by working to earn that tzedaka money are given to Hashem as a type of korbon.

ftm1234

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:39 pm

What do you mean by harming your health? Does it have any long term affects on your health?

Getting sick, even to the point of vomiting or fainting, isn't actively harming your health. It's uncomfortable. It feels terrible. But your health is not harmed in any way.

I can't imagine a rav telling you to fast if it really will have an impact on your health.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 8:42 pm

amother Blue wrote:

Btw. There are pills from the kollel in Toronto that make the fast a lot easier. Advil caffeine and Tylenol. You take before the fast and it starts to release after 12 hours throughout the day.

This year the local groceries also sold extended release electrolytes

amother

NeonOrange

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 10:45 pm

You are not actively harming your health if you are ok after the fast.

We are supposed to be in discomfort & feel pain & hardship to put ourselves in a place of extreme grief for the Bais Hamikdash that we don’t have anymore. If you can’t understand that, you need to listen to some shiurim or videos prior to tisha bav.
The sickness that we feel from fasting is a drop the bucket to what we actually felt when our Bais Hamikdash burnt to the ground.

Watch the video that’s been posted on ima mother. It’s 15’min & it will change your mind.
I sure hope so

tichellady

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 10:51 pm

if you don't truest your rabbi or feel heard by him it's time to find someone else. I don't know the details of your situation but I do know plenty of people who get heters not to fast on tisha bav. if you have a history of eating disorders please don't fast and find a rabbi who understands eating disorders. honestly, if you feel you can't fast don't ask for a heter- make it clear you need one and start the conversation that way

amother

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 10:56 pm

Ugh such typical responses.

1) your Rav is wrong and your problem is that you're going to the wrong Rav

2) I know a solution that you surely don't know about and haven't tried that will solve your fasting woes!

3) you clearly don't understand what Tisha b'Av is all about, educate yourself

To those who offered reasons in a respectful way, I appreciate it, whether or not they resonated with me.

To those who are struggling too, hugs. And I believe you.

tichellady

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 10:57 pm

ftm1234 wrote:

fainting can harm one's health. and if someone has little kids to watch it's not ok to be unconscious

tichellady

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 10:58 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm not saying it's your fault you went to the wrong rabbi. I am saying rabbis are not infallible and make mistakes- especially in the realm of mental health

amother

Heather

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 11:00 pm

amother OP wrote:

Regarding #2, I do believe so.

Have you ever considered IV? It's 100% worth it if you can get it. Where I live, there's a number you can call to request it and they come to give you fluid as often as needed.

amother

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 11:01 pm

tichellady wrote:

I'm not saying it's your fault you went to the wrong rabbi. I am saying rabbis are not infallible and make mistakes- especially in the realm of mental health

Yeah, I didn't mean to put down your answer specifically, and I definitely agree with you about the bolded.

Just when people say "find a different rav" it feels a bit like heter shopping... and I know my rav's position is not unique so I don't even know where I would start looking

ftm1234

Wed, Jul 26 2023, 11:03 pm

tichellady wrote:

fainting can harm one's health. and if someone has little kids to watch it's not ok to be unconscious

You don't have to be unconscious. Honestly, I don't know anyone irl who was ever told she had to wait until she fainted before breaking her fast. But even if she did, I'm not aware of how fainting once or twice a year will harm your health. If I'm missing info on that, maybe you can educate me a little on how fainting will affect one's health?