Wierd doctor encounter

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Forum -> Relationships -> Manners & Etiquette

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amother

DarkGreen

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 6:02 pm

It's weird, but consider this. He probably gets all kinds of patients and is tachlis oriented. He found that to be the easiest way to get the message across what needs to be done. I would have said "you caught me off guard with that"... but easy to say in retrospect

amother

Black

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 6:38 pm

NP here. That sounds highly uncomfortable. It was definitely inappropriate. Maybe he's old and a bit nerdy or spacey and out of touch with social norms and professional behavior?

It doesn't mean he's a bad pediatrician. But I would definitely say something next time you see him if you are confident enough to speak up. It is really important for him to know that he can't do that!

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 6:41 pm

amother DarkGreen wrote:

This is for sure the case. He's quick and to the point.
I never say anything lol. Not my strong point.

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 6:42 pm

amother Black wrote:

He's actually young and with it. Very with it and totally not nerdy. That's why I was surprised that he doesn't know that this is not appropriate.

amother

Black

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 6:56 pm

amother OP wrote:

He's actually young and with it. Very with it and totally not nerdy. That's why I was surprised that he doesn't know that this is not appropriate.

Oh. that makes things worse - if he's young, he has learned recently in medical school to ask every time before you touch a patient (let alone a family member who is not your patient!!). So, either cocky & thinks he's above all the information he learned in school, or really spaced out about professional conduct, or creepy. I would definitely say something to him or send a respectful message to management in the practice.

amother

Jetblack

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:44 pm

The being very quick and a bit adhd makes me think of a specific dr.

Although it is inappropriate I can see it happening by said dr but with absolutely no bad intention. Almost not even chapping.

Weird indeed though.

amother

Tue, Aug 22 2023, 11:50 pm

amother Jetblack wrote:

Agree. If you know him, you know it wasn't meant to be creepy.

amother

White

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 12:09 am

In that case I’m not sure what was the point in starting this thread. You feel you already have a good grasp of the situation and what kind of personality he is and where this was likely coming from.
Unless you didn’t before and discussing it out now helped clarify it to you

amother

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 9:43 am

amother White wrote:

It was super wierd! I had to get it off my chest and discuss with someone and process.

Simple1

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 9:51 am

I would think he should’ve demonstrated on your daughter. It would be easier for you to see what to do, and she’s the actual patient being examined.

WhatFor

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 10:21 am

Simple1 wrote:

I would think he should’ve demonstrated on your daughter. It would be easier for you to see what to do, and she’s the actual patient being examined.

Yup. Unless I'm missing context the excuse doesn't make sense. Op needs to do it on her dd and wouldn't be able to see what the doctor is doing on her to copy it. This makes no sense. Sometimes people push boundaries to see how far they can go, while playing innocent so that if you say anything they can try to make you look stupid. Think it through logically- it makes no sense.

And no, this is not at all likely to happen in the non-Jewish world.

Regardless of motive, I wouldn't trust a doctor who massaged my face for literally no reason and without any warning. It's not my problem to decide whether it was intentional or unintentional. A doctor with poor boundaries is a doctor I don't want to, and especially don't want my children to go to. Even if he means well, in the best of cases he's teaching your kids that inappropriate behavior is okay.

amother

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 10:29 am

WhatFor wrote:

I don't think his motive is bad but I don't think I would go back to him again. You're right, he crossed a boundary, and I don't like that.

amother

Impatiens

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 12:56 pm

I had the same exact story, OP was it DR Z?

amother

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 1:44 pm

amother Impatiens wrote:

I had the same exact story, OP was it DR Z?

I'd rather not mention doc, not sure why I want to protect him.

How did it make you feel?

I say it didn't bother me, but it keeps popping into my head...

amother

Impatiens

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 2:06 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'd rather not mention doc, not sure why I want to protect him.

How did it make you feel?

I say it didn't bother me, but it keeps popping into my head...

It was really weird, but being that I know that he's this hyper type (ADHD?) I was not shocked with his behavior. I normally try seeing other Drs in the practice.

amother

Dustypink

Wed, Aug 23 2023, 4:35 pm

Hi curious if this happened in lakewood? A dr/pa once was inappropriate with my child. But like you said I just felt uneasy but figured it's not alarming.

amother

Seafoam

Sun, Aug 27 2023, 10:40 am

Maybe he's a BT and simply doesn't have that crazy sensitivity to touch. (ahem, I'm one of them. BT for 25 years and still have to remind myself not to shake hands with men.) What he did as harmless to a non frum woman. Even if a non frum person doesn't like being touched, this would be a red flag issue, just a personal space issue.

WhatFor

Sun, Aug 27 2023, 12:15 pm

amother Seafoam wrote:

This has nothing to do with frum, bt, or not Jewish. This is inappropriate behavior for any doctor in any circumstance. There was literally no reason to touch her face, and I've never received this from any professional.

He's a young doctor who would likely have sat through multiple trainings on appropriate and inappropriate behavior with patients. He may lack impulse control, he may be deliberately pushing boundaries, who cares. Even if he just has ADHD (as do I, and I don't randomly massage people's faces, but whatever) why go to a doctor who lacks impulse control?

By the way, it doesn't have to be overtly zxual to be a red flag. There are people out there who enjoy touching women inappropriately, even if not zxually because it makes them feel powerful. Here's a frum woman they know wouldn't allow anyone to touch her but her DH. They know that their touch is going to make her uncomfortable. That might be part of the thrill. There was zero medical reason to do this. You don't show someone how to massage a kid by doing it on the person who will need to do the massage. She can't see what he's doing. And it makes even less sense when the subject is sitting right there. Some people are good at acting innocent and stupid which is why we judge them by their actions. I'm not saying that this doctor had this nefarious motive. But there are people out there like this, so I wouldn't be so quick to tell someone that was normal. And massaging a face is truly nothing like a handshake.

WhatFor

Sun, Aug 27 2023, 12:24 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'd rather not mention doc, not sure why I want to protect him.

How did it make you feel?

I say it didn't bother me, but it keeps popping into my head...

It keeps popping into your head likely because it feels violating to you and you keep trying to minimize it. So the part of you that felt wronged is feeling invalidated and wants you to notice until you get the point. Not that you need to make it into a big deal either but just acknowledge to yourself how inappropriate it was.

Maybe talk to someone in the practice and say you didn't appreciate being touched without warning and you still don't understand why he did that since it didn't help you understand the massage any better. And if there's a pattern with this guy, then that's concerning and everyone should say something.

Something that might help you put things into perspective: do you know any very frum respectable men in hatzalah, or other frum doctors? Can you imagine them doing something like that or does it immediately strike you as "no way"? Why? What quality do they have that this doctor doesn't seem to show?

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