Comment to DH at restaurant, WWYD?

amother

Melon

Fri, Sep 01 2023, 11:43 am

When my husband was a teen he was using his parents leaf blower to blow the grass and leaves, he asked his mother after "can you blow me?"
She sternly told him that it is inappropriate to talk that way!
He was so confused and had no idea why his mother reacted that way.

It honestly says so much about my mil, she has a dirty mind! She should have just said "yes sure"
My husband was innocently asking her to clean the grass off his clothes obviously.

After getting married and being educated about zxual stuff, my innocent sweet yeshiva husband finally hears why it sounds bad to say what he said years before to his mother. All those years it completely went over his head.

My question OP: why did your husband hear it as an invitation for inappropriate activity? Why did he come home and tell you?
There has to be more to the story

tichellady

Fri, Sep 01 2023, 11:48 am

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

A professional waitress would say, "we dont have a printed menu for desserts, would you like me to tell you todays desserts?"
A response like I'm the dessert menu is inappropriate for a kosher restaurant. The waitress is supposed to serve food and not draw attention to herself.

Haha do you think kosher restaurants are full of the most professionally trained waiters? They are hiring whoever applies and can do a decent job.

SG18

Fri, Sep 01 2023, 11:50 am

I am your dessert menu means I will tell you the dessert options. What does a menu do? It lists the desserts.
Regarding the free drink- restaurants often give free things. I've been to a restaurant that always gives a free appetizer.
This is crazy blown out of proportion.

amother

Linen

Fri, Sep 01 2023, 12:00 pm

I would have interpreted her comment by observing her immediate reaction after that comment.
Had she immediately presented to them the desert menu for that evening then it was most likely an innocent comment.

Had she not, I might have found it suspicious, not sure though.

OP, what happened immediately afterwards?
Did she tell them the menu?
Winked at them?
Walked off?

We need more details here...

little neshamala

Fri, Sep 01 2023, 12:52 pm

SG18 wrote:

Agreed.
Had she said "I can be your dessert", that means something else.
But she didnt say that. She said "im your menu", in other words, I'll tell you your choices.
Had they asked for the salad menu, and she responded "I am your salad menu", it wouldve been interpreted correctly. But because it happened at dessert time, it sounded funniy to them.

Really blown out of proportion. Makes me scared to open my mouth in public.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 5:05 pm

egam wrote:

First of all, where have you seen truly professional trained waitstaff in kosher restaurants?

Second, there’s a saying in Russian that everyone understands things according to the level of their debauchery. If that would be said to me, I would never go the route you are taking. There wouldn’t be any doubts in my mind that the waitress knows the dessert menu and can just describe to me what they have instead of walking to get it. They are busy enough.
We keep saying to judge everyone favourably, yet there are so many people on this thread whose knee jerk reaction is “Call the manager“

Different strokes for different folks. Its not a matter of judging favorably or not. But since you brought it up-
A Judge was once asked to define obscenity, his answer "I know it when I see it" became an icon. It applies here. If OPs husband returned home and said he was uncomfortable by the waitress, thats all I need to know. Telling the manager doesnt mean she will be fired, it just means the manager will train the staff appropriately. I an confident the OP will be able to speak maturely to the manager. Whether professionally trained or not, the waitress is the face of the business and can make or break the business.
You are ok with such a response- I guess we see things differently.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 5:17 pm

egam wrote:

Waitresses work for tips. They have to be pleasant and smiling and not grumpy witches in order to earn a living. Do you know what is the official federal minimum wage for the tipped workers? I can tell you - $2.13 an hour. But for a kolel guy who doesn’t have to hold a job and doesn’t live in real world that might look like flirting.

Excuse me?? You have something against men learning in Kollel? Where is your "judge favorably" suggestion? Or that is only for some and not others?

egam

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 9:18 pm

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

Excuse me?? You have something against men learning in Kollel? Where is your "judge favorably" suggestion? Or that is only for some and not others?

I don’t have anything against kolel guys. The way they live there is between them and their wives. But true kolel guys who are actually studying the whole day and not shmoozing about mundane matters, don’t know much about real world and see everything through the kolel lens.
So if you took an offence in my thinking that OP’s is a true kolel man that learns, there’s not much I can do.

amf

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 9:24 pm

egam wrote:

Do you know any 'true kolel guys', as you call them? Because I do, I happen to be married to one and have a couple of brothers who are as well. They are perfectly aware of the world out there, thank you very much, and yes, they are learning all day and all night. Not schmoozing. A kollel yungerman is perfectly capable of reading cues and judging behavior in the context of the general world. The sheltered bochur of your imagination rarely exists to that level today. We all live in society to some degree

As to your last line, wow. No words.

amother

Acacia

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 9:34 pm

She didn’t say- I am your dessert.
She said I am your dessert menu.
There is a big difference. It’s not the classiest way to phrase it, but these days people are unprofessional.
Why are you or your husband or you jumping to dirty thoughts.
It should have flown over your head.
To be honest, I’m a little innocent and I had to think for a little about how the comment can be dirty.

egam

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:32 pm

amf wrote:

And what pray tell me is wrong with my last line? What is for me to do if someone misconstrued my words? If anything, that actually shows how easy it is to misunderstand someone.

egam

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:36 pm

One more point.
I spoke to my DC, who has worked in the industry in different positions including being a restaurant manager. They said that this type of calls happen more than I can imagine and no one would pay attention to this type of call. On my question if anyone would actually talk to the waitress, the answer was “Nope. That’s her job”

amother

Fern

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:40 pm

egam wrote:

And what pray tell me is wrong with my last line? What is for me to do if someone misconstrued my words? If anything, that actually shows how easy it is to misunderstand someone.

It's just how you say a true kollel yungerman wouldn't know about the ways of the world
That's sort of like saying that anyone who does know about worldly stuff and is aware of their surroundings isn't a true kollel man.
TBH I took offense at it too, my husband learns and does very well bh, but he can still hold his own. It's a nature, not something that makes someone a true kollel man or not.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 10:48 pm

egam wrote:

Sorry, I now see all your comments through the prism of your recent comments , your dc is giving one opinion and its a sad one.
Successful businesses encourage and heed feedback from their customers. I would imagine that the next time the OPs FIL comes to town they will choose to eat elsewhere.

egam

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 11:02 pm

B'Siyata DiShamaya wrote:

I literally asked my child a minute before I posted the answer. I suddenly realized that I can actually ask a person with the experience in the industry. See, you are doing this again.
My main point though all my posts was how easy it’s to misconstrued someone’s language, intention, especially if it’s passed through many listeners.
And who is to say that wasn’t a training she actually received? Don’t you think the manager might have said that we don’t have printed dessert menus so you’ll be their dessert menu of sorts? And she just repeated that phrase?

taketwo

Sat, Sep 02 2023, 11:22 pm

Op, I am curious how the discussion started and went when your dh told you about the waitresses behavior?

One has to be very careful when complaining about an employee to an employer. There is a famous story of a rabbi (I forgot the name) who was a guest together with someone else at a Friday night seuda. The host asked how the soup tastes, the rabbi answered very good, but the other guest said it's lacking a little bit of salt.

Later on, the rabbi told the man off. The man didn't understand what the big deal was. The Rabbi then showed him how the cook was being fired.

I don't remember the details of the story, the rabbi, or if they ended up firing the cook, but the lesson is still there. Words are powerful, a few small words could cost someone their livelihood.

Complaining about a waitress who may or may not have been a tad flirty is dangerous. I'm in the I don't think it was terriblly inappropriate group, but even if it was slightly flirty, she didn't actually do anything seriously alarming - she didn't share personal details, she didn't say anything suggestive.

There could be ramifications for her. Unless you experienced actual abusive behavior, or clearly unethical/unlawful behavior from an employee, do not complain to their employer. Loosing their job could be the first step in unraveling their life, do you really want that on your conscience?