Mother doesn’t respect our no shoe rule

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:15 pm

amother Stonewash wrote:

Who said it’s not cleaner? We rarely get sick maybe there is a correlation.

We also rarely get sick
Maybe because we don’t ask our parents to take off their shoes.
There’s a correlation, for sure not maybe.
The Torah says the correlation is arichus yamim, a long life.

imaima

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:33 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

We also rarely get sick
Maybe because we don’t ask our parents to take off their shoes.
There’s a correlation, for sure not maybe.
The Torah says the correlation is arichus yamim, a long life.

Oh just stop
For parents who come from no shoe culture, there is nothing disrespectful about it and they don’t need to be asked to do it. And they still have a long life and what not.

Stop treating this custom as something ridiculous, it is fundamental in multiple cultures and is a variation pf the norm.

I cannot wrap my mind around a parent who blatantly repeatedly disregards something that is important for their children. It’s just wrong

amother

Pewter

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:39 pm

I remember my mother's mouth dropping open when her son and new daughter in law asked her to remove her shoes because they just bought new carpet and they don't want it getting dirty.
Later she told me she can't believe the chutzpa after a whole childhood of bringing in mud, dirt, filth into our house and my Mom sweeping, vacuuming, mopping every day. And leaving newspapers where they were read, food on the table, dishes in the sink, etc...
Yet NOW they have the nerve to decide their own house they value more. I got her point.

amother

Hyacinth

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:44 pm

amother Pewter wrote:

Well it was on her to raise him not to bring dirt and mud. Should have had this policy too.

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 1:59 pm

amother Holly wrote:

I know 4 people who have the no shoe rule and each one of them had been diagnosed with OCD. I have never gone to any other homes that have this rule .

A couple of the posts actually had me thinking possible OCD as well. To worry about what’s on the sides of people’s shoes, that may not come off on the mat, and some of the other comments was a bit over the top… not about “the norm” or their culture any more, more about anxiety and possibly compulsion about dirt.

amother

Fuchsia

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:01 pm

imaima wrote:

Custom??
Maybe you should stop! There’s no such custom.
It’s minhag lo yodeah!

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:03 pm

imaima wrote:

I wonder if OP grew up with this culture or not.
Is it do new that your mom thinks it’s just a meshigas?

Anyway I am really surprised about the answers. How is it okay for the mom to disrespect the house rules of her adult child?

It reminds me of parents of BTs who are not familiar with kashrus. Yes it is annoying to not be able to eat many things that parents are used to, but do you really think it would be fine for BTs to just let their parents do whatever?

I don’t think iso. For me it’s the same kind of disrespect.

“LET their parents” do whatever? Where’s the respect for elders, especially parents? Let them?

Most bt’s know not to force their parents to change their way of life for their frum children, nor would most Rabbonim suggest that they do so,

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:05 pm

imaima wrote:

We don’t do shoes in the house because of dirt.
However we now live in the culture that does shoes in the house.
My rule is, a guest who came for a short visit or a meal, especially if they are new, can decide what they do with their shoes.
We personally take off our street shoes. I may wear shoes as a part of an outfit at home, but the soles will be cleaned in advance.

Anyone who expects to stay for a longer stretch of time, go into bedrooms, hangout with kids on the floor, will have to take off their street shoes. Mothers belong into this category.

I guess you don’t realize that to many of us here, forcing a guest to take off their shoes, especially a parent who isn’t comfortable doing so for whatever reason, is not only hard to understand, but even nervy.

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:10 pm

imaima wrote:

Well for me it is laughable and flaky to feel degraded by taking off shoes. There is nothing degrading about it in the context where everyone takes off their shoes.

Taking off shoes shows respect for the hostess‘ labor who cleaned the house and helps protect the home from outside germs. It’s an essential step of maintaining hygiene for those who do it.

.

So what’s to stop you from asking that guests wear gloves in your home as well? You don’t know where their hands have been before they got there, and people carry germs from touching various surfaces and other things..

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:20 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

I don’t think anyone here who keeps a no shoe home would force someone with orthopedics or foot problems to take off their shoes if it would cause them pain. I personally wouldn’t even enforce it if the guest clearly looked uncomfortable at the idea. However, guests that come frequently, who don’t have foot problems, should be respecting your house rules. Even if they’re your parents. It’s basic human decency. People deserve to have their homes treated with respect.

If you’re staying by someone and they have a rule about only eating in the kitchen, dining room or outside and then your kid eats a sticky red ices in your hosts living room and gets it all over their lovely tan couch, you’d be mortified and do what you could to clean up and repair the damage.

People with a no shoe rule see it as the same thing. You’re making your hosts house dirty and providing them with unnecessary work. Only difference between the two situation is that a couch you’d actually try to clean. But a floor you made dirty you’d view as fine to give your host for extra work

How is it extra work? You still have to wash your floors, no?

amother

Wheat

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:22 pm

amother Fuchsia wrote:

We also rarely get sick
Maybe because we don’t ask our parents to take off their shoes.
There’s a correlation, for sure not maybe.
The Torah says the correlation is arichus yamim, a long life.

Yes whatever this “cultural custom” may be it is not from ours it is certainly not yiddishkeit in which it is like a sign of aveilus Chas v shalom.

amother

Saddlebrown

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:25 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

Very poor analogy to red ices on the couch.

Most people wipe off their feet when they enter a house and their feet are not dirty. I highly doubt op's mother is bringing mud over all over her freshly cleaned floors.

Besides, it's very different because people really do feel uncomfortable without their shoes. Eating red ices wherever you want is just for no reason.

amother

Moonstone

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:31 pm

Cheiny wrote:

How is it extra work? You still have to wash your floors, no?

Yes, the floors will still need to be washed but assuming they were freshly cleaned within the last few hours, you wouldn’t want someone with wet, muddy shoes leaving tracks all over your floor. If you were only planning to mop right after shabbos/yom tov you now have to mop sooner than planned because someone messed up the place.

I don’t run the neatest household. There’s often laundry on my couch, random objects on the floor etc.. I find that I have an easier time keeping the place clean when my floor is clean (also when cabinets are closed). The second I have a noticeably dirty floor I know that I’m probably not going to get the mess under control until my cleaning lady comes or until I sacrifice some sleep one night so I can tidy up the place

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:41 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

I have an issue with putting people in the uncomfortable position of having to explain to their hosts why they can’t or don’t want to remove their shoes.

If anything, I think it should be on the host to make it clear that it’s completely optional, and leave the guest the choice without them having to explain or make excuses or possibly reveal medical problems, or embarrassment or what not. It’s just unacceptable.

As far as your dirty floors, most of us mop our floors regularly anyway (or have our cleaning woman do it), so presumably you’re doing that work whether people wear shoes or not.

Cheiny

Tue, Oct 03 2023, 2:45 pm

amother Moonstone wrote:

I’m sorry but with a mat at the front door, people know to wipe their shoes when they come in from rain or snow, and you don’t see mud tracked all over.

This is where I think it gets into an issue that goes deeper than, “it’s just more dirt to have to clean.”

Floors have to be washed regularly no matter what, shoes or no shoes. There’s no extra effort necessary.