Attending an event without a direct invitation

amother

Latte

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 6:59 pm

amother DarkGray wrote:

I made a bar mitzvah. The minimum was 100 people meaning we paid for 100 no matter how few showed up, but if 104 ate, we paid for 104 portions and if 150 ate, we paid for 150 portions.
And each portion costs between $20-30 apiece.

A different time we made a bris and arranged that there should be bagels, lox, danishes for 80 people. It was a legal holiday and 110 people ended up showing up, we were presented a bill for 110. We were NOT in a good place financially and we were quite irritated by everyone who stopped by.

I hear you. Yes, its legitimate to worry about $, especially when don't have.
I didn't think it happens.
I will go to random simchas and not eat lol. Not joking. And will make sure to let the baalas ha simcha know I didn't touch the food, came just to say mazal tov. Will you want more people with no obligation like that?

I think I will look into cheaper, less expensive, more ppl inclusive simcha. For me ppl matter a lot......thanks for the touch up with reality.

amother

DarkGray

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:06 pm

amother Latte wrote:

I hear you.
I didn't think it happens.
I will go to random simchas and not eat lol. Not joking. And will make sure to let the baalas ha simcha know I didn't touch the food, came just to say mazal tov. Will you want more people with no obligation like that?

You'd have to find out.
Some caterers bring out food for everyone present there and then charge even if the guests decline the food.
The caterers don't want to appear cheap that they're not putting out food in front of everyone there. And once the food is put out, it can't be reused and therefore the caterer has to charge.

Personally because I know that, if I was making a bar mitzvah and during the dinner I looked around and saw 100 women when I know I reserved for 50, I would be spending my entire Simcha panicking about the potential extra money and be annoyed at those who just showed up without an invitation.
I would have preferred they came to my kiddush where you don't pay per head.

Similarly by a wedding. I would feel very anxious at extra people coming during the meal- maybe it will cost me money I can't afford. Come by chuppah, come by simchas chassan vkalla, come by some other time when I don't have to panic about the money.

mommyhood

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:09 pm

amother Latte wrote:

OMG OMG OMG.
Hashem pls pls pls give me all the extra $ in the world to not worry about this, and all unwanted people should come to my simcha Hear me from this thread! PLEASE

I'm sorry that it causes people so much agmas nefesh....its really sad for everyone. I didn't make so many big simchas yet, but -this is sad. I really wish I had so much $ that everyone who wants would come. It's sad when you don't have much family to participate, I don't. I would take all these unwanted guests for myself.

So you are saying halls make people pay extra and it's not automatically calculated before ?don't you rent hall and prepay for more?people like worry someone will be left without food? Or that they gonna foot the bill? Sorry if I sound inexperienced. I thought you pay for like 500 ppl or 300. Because nowadays (someone just told me) people don't go by exact amount of invitations. And to be honest, if someone heard about my simcha (who isn't close to me), and came- I would be touched. Good for you that you are so loved and have so many relatives and friends that extra people makes you angry/worried. You are all blessed, ladies. I got married in Israel and many people came uninvited, just because they heard about my chasuna and that I don't have much relatives. And I was so so touched bh.... I guess I know that for my kids I will have to make buffet and free invites, bc this is much more valuable for me than worry someone will eat extra portion. It makes sense, I'm not that stupid with $, ...doesn't all this worry like kill the atmosphere of simcha? This is definitely not my style I guess)

This wasn’t a big simcha it was a small home based siyum. I don’t even think OP called it a simcha it could have been a yahrtzeit or shloshim. It doesn’t compare to a big wedding or a kiddush where the norms are different.

amother

Latte

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 7:12 pm

mommyhood wrote:

I got it.

Listen, from this thread I can tell you one thing -you don't have big family=you like guests. You have no money -you worry about extra guests. Everyone values different things. I'm thrilled to be remembered by people. I won't mind. Other people worry about $ or how they look, or have enough ppl in their life and don't want extra guests. Everyone is different. Let's assume we all act on best intentions within our rational minds. And some things we learn through making tacky mistakes at times:)

amother

Latte

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 10:25 pm

amother Rose wrote:

When I first read this thread I thought it was off for people to come join when not invited and couldn't imagine it happening "in my crowd". And then my son got married. And 2 families came that were not sent invitations. Families I am not close to, who drove 2 hours to come. I don't get it. I have BH a very large extended family that tend to show up without responding to invitations. So I had asked for extra tables just in case. So it worked out OK for these families to eat. I didn't say anything to them, but I'm still scratching my head wondering what made them drive 2 hours to a simcha they weren't invited to. Scratching Head

Ok, I edited my post.
I am probably lying and I never had to deal with this question in Israel. From what I remember, I think most people over- invited guests, like they gave invitations to random people ,far relatives, acquaintances,colleagues,teachers etc etc. And asked their relatives to pass those invitations to others.
I don't think I ever heard of this sort of problem-that uninvited people came and that the hostess was not happy about. This so why it's so unusual for me.

amother

Rose

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 10:48 pm

amother Latte wrote:

This is so so so so so American. So very American.

I think in Israel people are much more chilled about showing uninvited. Maybe my crowd only?

I am flipping from this thread. Maybe people felt like you have more relationship with them than you thought? Maybe they thought it will make you happy even if you didn't send the invitation...I think its only in american culture that if you are not invited and you come, you are judged so much (or maybe on imamother).

In american culture it's a given that invitations mean you are invited to stay and eat. I have no problem with someone coming just to wish mazel tov, but yes, we tell the caterer how many to expect and he prepares for that number. One or 2 extras showing up won't make a difference, but 10 or 20 people might. Again, I never said anything, I just wonder why they came. And if they felt close to me, they would call, message, invite us for shabbos etc. And that hasn't happened. It makes no sense to me that they feel close to me, but don't have much to do with me during the rest of the time.

amother

Latte

Sun, Nov 19 2023, 10:56 pm

amother Rose wrote:

its funny. So what do you think, they shleped 2 hours to eat for free?that gas is not so cheap nowadays. What do you think yourself, why did they come?

I'm so not American in this aspect. Life is so busy and I don't have time to keep up with all people I know. But I still like my friends from 10-15years ago. I would think they felt that it's a good way to show connection or that at some point in life you meant something to each other. Idk. ....שמחות צריך לעשות, צרות באות לבד

amother

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:45 am

amother Tulip wrote:

Dh and I received an invitation to his cousins bar Mitzvah. It was an upscale sit down event with a lot of people. Although I don’t have much to do with her I went “to do the right thing” we went along with my in-laws. We drove about an hour to the affair which was in a hotel instead of the typical local halls. I still remember how uncomfortable I felt when my name wasn’t on the seating chart. Dh was. Mil was. Fil was. But not me. I felt like the third wheel. Not to mention it was out of my comfort zone. (I don’t love social affairs).

Reading this thread brought that memory back.

I’m shocked this thread was bumped.

Tulip, were you invited to the bar mitzvah (you should have been!)? And if so, did you rsvp that you would attend?

In my OP, I thought I was pretty clear that I was not describing a simcha, it was a yartzeit siyum During nine days. Now that so many months have passed, I feel more comfortable being a bit more specific. This is not just a regular yartzeit, it was for a teenager Who passed away just a few years ago. As this is my best friend, I remember all of the details about the death, because I managed many of the details due to the tragedy. A lot of these guys who showed up for meat during the 9 days or somehow unavailable to attend the shiva minyanim when they were desperately needed. The hostess, who is the mother does not hold a grudge, but I remember. Anyway, her sheer panic at not having enough food was hard to watch. She managed the awkwardness of this occasion beautifully.

In the situation, I mentioned, regarding my son‘s bar mitzvah and uninvited guests. I was extremely clear with who was invited, and who was not. When people send in their RSVP, I double checked if that was accurate. I was extremely clear that the children were not invited, because I had a very small budget and made a very small event and the extra cost per plate is stressful to a baal simcha sometimes.

Tulip, here you are referring to an upscale restaurant at a hotel. I’m not sure why your name was not on the list. And I am sorry on your behalf for what I’m sure was embarrassment. But that is not at all what I described in my posts.

The Cummins here that are emotionally manipulating the situation (“better a simcha than a funeral”)… That’s very harsh.

It is my tefillah that everybody should be able to always make a huge simchas With extra meat, boards, and dessert tables and be able to invite people to their hearts content. I hope that nobody has to understand the struggle of trying to make a beautiful event and not having enough money to do it so you have to make hard choices.

As a BT with an extremely small family, I would have loved to fill the room with everybody who wanted to attend. I wish I could have.

But for an annual seudah during the 9 days, don’t go unless yours explicitly asked.

I am honestly baffled at how anybody could read my first and subsequent posts on this thread, in which I was clear that this took place during the nine days, and assume this was a real simcha.

amother

Latte

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:46 am

amother Tulip wrote:

I still think you did the right thing. Many, many times after going to imamother, I thought -why did I even consider all those opinions?many times things said here are way, way different from what jpf ppl say in real life. Maybe it's because people are less reserved online, or you don't see the name, and a person can say anything they feel but won't tell you in person. Who cares. Most normal people I know are happy to have simcha, to send out invitations,and even when uninvited ppl come, they dont say "why did they come". And don't question why someone came to small siyum within 9 days- I assume if all ppl there were regular frum, they probably thought that there will be a need for minyan or smth similar.

amother

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:55 am

amother Latte wrote:

And don't question why someone came to small siyum within 9 days- I assume if all ppl there were regular frum, they probably thought that there will be a need for minyan or smth similar. It's not normal simcha to be so aggressive towards uninvited people, it just doesn't sound like ahavas yisroel

Again, this was not a normal siyum in the 9 days for fun. It was pretty clear to all. People came to chop a meatball.

Where is the ahavas yisrael in showing up somewhere uninvited and causing such a degree of stress and discomfort and even embarrassment to the host who can't feed everyone?

Ahavas yisrael is a two-way street! It's not just you doing for me = ahavas yisrael. It's also extremely important to look at the situation and wonder if I am doing the right thing.

In my OP, I mentioned the women who walked over to say hi, and was clearly there and clearly heard my friend comment that there were people coming in who she did not expect and now she does not have enough food - and she called her daughters to come and eat! After the comment from the host! That's ahavas yisrael?

I'm reading a lot more of magiah li, manipulated to look like ahavas yisrael in some of your comments.

amother

Latte

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:56 am

amother OP wrote:

your choice is beautiful event and less people, and other people's choice can be to have minimum food and more people, and not to feel resentment someone showed up uninvited. Are you sure you are not judgemental about "guys showing for meat during nine days"?we arent in africa, come on, none does it like this. I think it's too emotional post and maybe in real life needs some fact checking about why people act the way the do. Not to hurt or upset someone, for sure, and not to eat meat in 9 days ,people aren't that crazy. Are you sure you aren't misreading the social clues? Even if I worry there is not enough food,....you know a hostess is used to it and it's okay to have all these feelings. It's like happens a lot (I guess),but not everyone would be like "why did you come, go away". The resentment towards uninvited people to me personally is much worse than any stress....

amother

Tulip

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 9:58 am

amother OP wrote:

I was responding to the turn the thread seemed to take in the recent bump. (I’d be nervous too about food and chairs! if 10 ppl show up uninvited)
Yes I was invited. It was a few years back but I assume I rsvpd. It was a catered affair in a hotel ballroom. Tons of people and a band with a singer….. when my name wasn’t on the seating chart I assumed they addresses the invite to mr and Mrs but really just wanted/expected dh for old times sake . (It was his cousin who was making the bar Mitzvah but I don’t know he much they kept up in recent years) I’m quiet and prefer to stay home. I went to do the right thing which turned out to be the wrong thing! They were gracious and had an extra chair added and a portion sent but I can still feel the shame! At showing up when I clearly wasn’t expected

amother

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 10:00 am

amother Latte wrote:

okay,so your choice is beautiful event and less people, and other people's choice to have minimum food and more people, and not to feel resentment someone showed up uninvited. Are you sure you are not judgemental about "guys showing for meat during nine days"?we arent in africa, come on, none does it like this. I think it's too emotional post and maybe in real life needs some fact checking about why people act the way the do. Not to hurt or upset someone, for sure, and not to eat meat in 9 days ,people aren't that crazy.

No, my choice was to make the nicest simcha I could make with my budget - any simcha by it's very nature is beautiful. It was tiny in a small party room, one man band, no center pieces, no flowers, bare bones. You read what you wanted to read into my post.

And yes, people 100% show up when they hear there is a siyum for meat.

And yes, it was 100% inappropriate for them to show up to this siyum.

amother

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 10:03 am

amother Tulip wrote:

If you were invited, and you RSVPed that you would attend, and it was they who were wrong and not you.

amother

Peachpuff

Mon, Nov 20 2023, 7:47 pm

amother Latte wrote:

Sorry but a yartzeit siyum is not a place to "show up for a simcha". Especially a young death. Where the family is probably emotional and not up to hosting a huge event. And no, not all hosts are "used to" people showing up uninvited and not having enough food.
I made a shabbos meal once, prepared for 2 guests. At shul I was asked to host 3 more. I didn't have enough food!! I was so stressed but couldn't say no because of who asked and knowing these guests had no meal (their host backed out last minute apparently). I ran home and stressed, pretended I was "behind in preparations" and created a few salads/sides (quite clever so they didnt look last minute if I do say so). And I didn't eat.
If it was a Simcha I would be so overwhelmed.