Anglo Chareidi Communities?

amother

Purple

Tue, Nov 21 2023, 9:15 am

OP, you won’t fit into Israeli charedi society. Americans just don’t. It’s too restrictive for us, the nuances and challenges are very foreign to us. Not because it’s bad or good, it’s simply different. Chose an Anglo charedi school where you’ll fit and have friends. Most Anglo charedi schools in RBS and other communities will fit your needs.

As a parent in one of the schools mentioned here not too nicely and seeing some of these responses, remember the environment of today and be careful with lashon hara. I don’t know why our school is constantly an example of not charedi enough but it’s wrong. Only Hashem decides who is far and who is close. Wearing a blue uniform or more charedi schooling or length of skirt does not bring one closer to Hashem which is the focus of our lives. We have feelings as do our dc. We’re serving Hashem in our way and you can in yours. Please remember this when describing schools here.

Reality

Tue, Nov 21 2023, 9:29 am

amother Peach wrote:

I'm trying to be honest. I want to help people but at the same time I've met so many people that moved to RBS thinking that some of these schools were considered accepted and they weren't and then they had a huge problem trying to get their kids to be moved to a different School after the fact.

The question is where do these kids go after Elementary School, a chareidi high school or yeshiva won't take them. They are leaving the chareidi system and will be in the torani, dati leumi, or Grey area/modern chareidi that is looked down upon by the chareidi community

I know alot of families like these, that sent to these schools. The parent body is a big mix as well. It's not simple.

I find these types of posts very condescending. People do their due-diligence. Families that are super yeshivish aren't interested in the schools listed on this thread and do just fine in a typical Israeli Bais Yaakov.

This OP decribed herself as OOT yeshivish. She is looking for a school that would be a good fit for her family not a school that Israeli Chareidim want to send their kids to.

amother

Arcticblue

Tue, Nov 21 2023, 10:34 am

amother Offwhite wrote:

Why does it have to be "considered" chareidi?
Most kids of Anglo olim in RBS marry the same, so who cares what Israeli chareidim think?
Even kids born here to Anglo olim mostly associate with the same.
We get invited to these type of weddings all the time.

OP doesn't have to send to a school that's considered chareidi and there's nothing wrong with a school that's not considered chareidi. To the one who was insulted above, I'm not sure I see why. Everyone has been speaking very respectfully, even if they disagree about the description of a school. They are just pointing out that many more "open" schools are not accepted by less "open" high schools. Which makes sense. It's not a judgement, just a fact.

But OP said she wants a chareidi school. I think she's probably rethinking that now, and for good reason. Seems like she didn't have a good understanding of "chareidi". Seems like something else (I don't know other systems here) would probably be a better fit for her, not only for her 10yo.

To the one I quoted above, I'm not sure I agree with your claim that most anglo olim and children of anglo olim marry and associate with the same. Probably the ones you're hanging out with, because those are the ones that send to these very American schools. You're seeing the effect of sticking with this American/anglo culture. It's sticking with anglos. Again, not as a bad thing, just as the way it is.

There are also people who send to chareidi (or torani or something else more typical Israeli) schools, whether in RBS or not, and their kids are not as certain to marry or associate with anglos. I know a bunch of those. Many still marry anglos, but not all. A couple of women told me in the last couple of weeks that they speak to their kids Hebrew because their husband doesn't speak English. They both grew up in the normal Israeli chareidi system and married Israelis. It's really not unheard of.

LovesHashem

Tue, Nov 21 2023, 11:08 am

dena613 wrote:

I think loveshashem was raised as an olah in Israel possibly In RBS
Maybe her siblings or their friends went to these schools

Correct.

Honesty I think I'm going to bow out I don't know all the most updated inside info about all these schools, I only know what I see from the families who attend, what I hear women discussing on park benches, hearing from my friends and neighbors and family members, seeing the hundreds of kids getting on and off busses daily etc.

I am sorry if my posts come out too blunt. I don't look down on anybody and most of my friends send to these schools. I have friends from all backgrounds and schools. I don't think they are bad schools, on the contrary I've heard wonderful things about the staff and the curriculum and how they treat the students. Everyone I know is very happy at Netzach, Bnos Malka, Magen Avot etc.

At the same time I still know they are not considered chareidi schools by the Israeli chairedi public and the question is where you want them to conintue to after, if they have high schools and yeshivos that fit what you are looking for. If you want to integrate into Israeli chareidi society etc.

I'm only mentioning this because I think it's so important for people to really know what they want when moving here. I think the biggest issue that causes kids in RBS to go off the derech is when a family and school are on different pages and there's a lack of respect. I know many bitter and OTD Israeli girls who grew up in RBS, this is NOT unique to olim at all IMHO.

I really want everyone to be happy and their kids to be happy and in places that are the best fit.

I'm sorry if someone felt hurt by any comments I made.

amother

cornflower

Tue, Nov 21 2023, 4:15 pm

amother Purple wrote:

I don't think that the bolded is true. There are thousands of Americans who fit into Israeli chareidi society, including myself (and my family). But my kids were born and raised here, which is very different than moving from America as a preteen.

amother

PlumPink

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 12:51 am

amother OP wrote:

Thank you all for your the responses! I appreciate the honesty. Going to look into the schools mentioned. It sounds like RBS is the main area that offers the best options.
Thought I might find out about other lesser-known communities that could work, too.

Trying not to be discouraged by the practical fact that the Chareidi system might not be as welcoming as what we're used to here in our little melting pot in the Midwest. I want to believe there is a place for my kids. Isn't EY where we're supposed to be...? Crying

It's not about the charedi system not being welcoming. It's that the charedi schooling is a very specific offer and you can either opt in or not. If you want to opt in, they'll welcome you with pleasure.

You have to remember that you're moving across the world to a different culture. You can't expect to take that culture with you. When an Israeli moves to America, they don't expect to keep their Israeli culture and find schools exactly like they had at home either. The frustration I see in American Olim is because they don't want to adapt to the system. EY is a home for every Jew - true but that doesn't mean that EY has to provide every type of school.

Slowly there are American communities building their own schooling system. You'll find it in RBS and in Givat Hamivtar, Rechovot. The problem is that they create elementary schools and pat themselves on the back for doing something new, "improving the Charedi system and still remaining within it", exactly how they had it "back home" and then complain that the standard Israeli high schools don't want to take those kids! You want your own schools? No problem. Create high schools as well! It's not fair on the kids. Instead of expecting them to adapt when they're 6, you're expecting them to adapt when they're 14 which is way harder.

I think another issue is understanding the term "charedi". When Americans say charedi, they mean all types from JPF across to chasidish. My JPF family in the States allow their kids internet access, don't insist on socks until bas mitzva, leave a tefach of hair open, etc. In Israel, that isn't considered standard charedi, it's modern. A yeshiva that takes boys from families who do not give their children internet access won't take a boy whose been to an elementary school where most of the kids do have internet access. It's not nasty, it's not mean, it's a reflection of their intake. Many of the parents want their kids protected and don't want the exposure.

The other side is that many of the parents sending to the RBS schools mentioned above are American JPF and they want their kids to have the exposure, which is fine - it's their decision. But then don't ask the high schools who have a strict no internet policy, who insist on tights from latest age 9 etc to take those kids. The expectation makes no sense.

Where we all often make a mistake is that we forget that schools are a service provider. They offer a specific service. When you opt in as a parent, you opt in to all the rules and offers that a school has - and opt out of all the ones they don't have. Parents who opt in and then quietly break the rules, kvetch about the offer, shouldn't send there. Schools have no obligation to adapt to the parents the same way any other service provider has no obligation to adapt to their clients.

OP, I'll say again. If you already have resentment about feeling unwanted, whether right or not, making aliya may not be the best decision. Your kids will pick up on that resentment and will feel unwanted whether it's true or not. The biggest thing you can give your kids is the understanding that it will be an adjustment, but you believe in them, you believe in the system (whichever you choose) and you'll make it work.

sara_s

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 12:57 am

amother OP wrote:

The Israeli Charedi society is only welcoming if you abide 100% by every single one of their rules. That's one of the reason that there's a huge Anglo charedi community blossoming here, mainly in RBS, but with some offshoots across the country- and it sounds like it will be a perfect fit for you. There are a few options for boy's yeshiva ketana high schools with a similar haskafa popping up also. This has been such a blessing for Aliya from the US. Beforeds hand families needed to choose if to try to fully acclimate into Israeli charedi society or move to Torani DL. Both are good options but just not a good fit for many families. IMHO it's that struggle to fit in and feeling like a fish out of water that can create the biggest chinuch challenges.
IYH you can make aliyah nowadays and find your perfect landing spot.
I also see some families make a soft landing to the Anglo RBS community and then later deciding they want to transition to the more Israeli charedi community when they are ready and doing that successfully - it is possible, and it's much healthier when it's gradual and thought out, after consulting with a Rav in EY who actually understands the ins and outs here, and parents are making those changes fully understanding the implications of their decisions and don't just want to fit in.

sara_s

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 1:08 am

amother PlumPink wrote:

You were right a few years ago about no high school options existing for boys but that's changed in recent years and a few have opened up. If OP wants to make aliyah and is happy with the American Yeshivish style system then her family should be perfectly happy in RBS all the way through high school.
I went through the Israeli charedi system, fully integrated and made the decision to send my kids to the Anglo Charedi system and honestly am much happier with it. I feel we can contribute a LOT to EY- we can help build bridges between the different communities and help solve some of the terrible Sinat Chinam that sometimes exists between different streams of belief here. (BH much better during the war but who knows what will happen afterwards..)
So OP please don't think of Anglo Charedi as 2nd best or a reason not to make aliya. It's another path, it's blossoming in EY and expanding. The Torah has 70 faces, and bez"h all communities can live here in EY together.

IMHO the biggest issues US families have with making aliyah currently is if they can't afford the property prices in a soft landing spot and end up somewhere else that's not a good fit for them. Because RBS property prices went up a LOT and are similar to Jerusalem. I know there are some other great Olim communities but you should research them well before moving to make sure they are good fits for your family and your kids. The advantage of RBS is there are so many schools to choose from that you can make aliyah and then figure out exactly your best fit and also switch schools if necessary without needing to move town.

Reality

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 1:18 am

sara_s wrote:

Your post is 100% correct, liking is not enough!

LovesHashem

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 1:32 am

I'm not going to be commenting on specific schools, I'm going to comment on the Israeli chareidi vewipoint.

It's not that they want to turn jews away. It's that the chareidi rabbanim think Israel is and should be a place with a higher standard. The dati leumi world is very seperate from the chareidi world, anyone who comes in in the middle is the threat to bringing down the kedusha and standards of eretz Yisroel. Minhag hamakon means you should take on the standards where you move somewhere else.

The real chareidi rabbanim look at RBS as a huge mistake, something that was originally made without any rabbanim and shouldn't have been made. Now after the fact it's here they feel they need to be here to do some damage control and give the people hadracha.

This is not my opinion, this is what I've heard again and again from different rabbanim, over the past ten years.

Although things are changing, in the past 5 years alone so many in between schools have opened up. Even despite the protests and kol korehs that they are damaging the soul of our children signed by pretty much all the chareidi rabbanim, even American ones. More Israelis are also shifting out of the chareidi system and find themselves in between. I think in another ten years the people in between will be even stronger and there will be real communities like this instead of small pockets.

Even IN RBS A that is home to many dati leumi communities and secular, the chareidi rabbanim have made sure there isn't any sit down restaraunts in the main shopping area except fast food pizza store kind of thing, no soccer fields and pits, the new mall that opened up is only going to be shomer shabbos companies, mostly frum stores even though many of us would love to have a Zara or h and m. I don't think any stores in the shopping center in aleph sell non kosher phones. I think the last store caved recently after daily protests for them to close.

It's such a strange combination. At the same time its very normal to see women wearing pants and secular people in the shopping center, but it's also greatly influenced by rabbanim. The new ice cream store that opened last year fired all its female employees after the hashgacha found out men and women were working together.

At the end of the day RBS is a huge multi-religion and cultural experiment, I don't think anything else quite exist in the entire country. There's so many different types of Jews living in one area, and that can cause issues sometimes but it's also so beautiful to see IMHO (although some groups may disagree).

To leave this off on a positive note.

I think you must be willing to go with the flow if you come, because no one can 100% describe what it's like. Every school has pros and cons and if you're looking for a school that matches your values there's plenty. The terms and conditions at each may be different than what you expected, and it's not exactly like schools where you are from probably but all of the schools mentioned are great places and if you're willing to give it a shot and get past small details, whether it's dress that's too strict or dress thats not fitting 100% where you're standards are, you will find a place for your kids to be happy and thrive.

amother

Honey

Wed, Nov 22 2023, 1:55 am

Another RBS mom here. Totally agree with Sara.

If you want to go the hard core chareidi route, you certainly can.

If you want a little more open, meaning you think it's good for your kids to be able to have some exposure, your son to learn limudei chol and be able to play ball, that exists here straight through high school. In the girls and the boys. And there is some wiggle room. Meaning that boys who go to the more open-minded chareidi elementary schools can go to yeshiva ketanas, plenty do every single year. Or to yeshiva high schools with bagrut. More are opening all the time. Same with girls. Of course, a very insular high school/yeshiva won't take a kid whose family is more open, but then it wouldn't be for you child anyway.

My kids are in the schools mentioned above. Yes, there are some kids whose families are less insular than us, and some who are more. That's how I grew up too, in my community school in America, and I think it's healthy for my kids to grow up that way.