Consumerism is destroying the Jewish community from within

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 11:56 am

keym wrote:

I don't have these things. I'm grateful for what I do have. I should put standard in parentheses.

Or maybe I should have said that it's becoming more and more standard as opposed to massively luxurious.

I guess I'm thinking about house sales and rental advertisements.
My mil was telling me how 45 years ago when they bought their house, it advertised that it came with a washer and had dryer hookup capability. Now, no one advertises that in their house cause duh.
Around 15 years, we were looking to move, all the frum Lakewood advertisements were advertising either 2 ovens, or a dishwasher, or 2 stainless steel sinks. Meaning it was a selling point.
I just skimmed the weekly rental and sales sections. 2 ovens, or a dishwasher is not a real selling point. It's fairly typical.
Selling points are 2 dishwashers or 3 ovens or some other luxurious item.

I agree 100% that standards (whatever they may be) have gone up over time. And there are many places people see what's supposedly "normal" or "standard" and base their standard on that. Magazines, advertisements, instagram, and imamother too. It's all very accessible nowadays.

bsy

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:13 pm

keym wrote:

This kind of kitchen is only popular in some places. I think it needs new construction and large floorplans. I live in Brooklyn, and this is hardly found. 2 sinks and 2 ovens yes, but not 2 dishwashers etc

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:15 pm

keym wrote:

A previous poster said something about generational needs.
My grandparents all had washers but very few had dryers
My parents had dryers but very few dishwashers.
My generation had 1 dishwasher.
Now, standard is a fully kosher kitchen with 2 or 3 self clean ovens, 2 stainless steel sibks, and 2 dishwashers.
And we don't view that as a luxury like diamonds or mink or vacations because it's useful.
But at the same time, it's created a cycle where if we don't have it, we feel so lost and so without.
How many people here use only disposables all 8 days of Pesach because they don't kasher their dishwasher.
Again, there's nothing wrong with using disposables. It's the learned helplessness that forces us to have to spend even more that really bothers me for our kids

I would rather say it's being so groomed in life that everything must be convenient.
Financially it's much smarter to kosher the dish washer or buying one for Pesach use only and skip those disposables.

amother

Slateblue

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:16 pm

We need to all show that non-consumerism is an option, and a cool one at that. The secular world is already on to things like freecycling, cheap/free entertainment, repurposing, zero waste, etc. It's not just what we wear and eat and our houses, it has to be a full cultural shift. Little things like not buying new clothes every year, serving popcorn and hummus instead of fancier appetizers, avoiding name brands, being conscious about food waste, all send a subtle signal that we don't need to spend too much money.

amother

Feverfew

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:17 pm

Something beautiful about the frum community that also causes many issues is that we do not define our peers by social class. In the non-Jewish world, a kid in public school on snap and Medicaid would never even have the opportunity to meet the child of a millionaire, let alone associate themselves and be friends with that child. To highlight this further, I know someone who works as a dietician in a nursing home with all non-Jewish coworkers. The owners (frum guys) threw a holiday party and came in for it, naturally this frum person sat with the owners and was schmoozing with their wives. After the party, her coworkers were horrified as they would never dare speak to the owners. In our community, we are not stratified by social class. The rebbi's son and the real estate owner's son are best friends. If you think about it, this really is beautiful. However, this causes the natural cycle of jealousy and feeling inadequate when you see those around you who have more than you because they can afford it (and those around you who can't afford it). It really is a vicious cycle of wanting and needing although it stems from a beautiful aspect of the frum community. If everyone would stop looking at what everyone else has and just learn to live within their means and understand that it is okay to not have that thing and not be embarrassed about it like is suggested in the podcast episode, I think we would all be happier.

LovesHashem

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:20 pm

esther7 wrote:

I feel like the frum magazines add to the problem tremendously. There are so many adverts that promote over the top gashmius. I understand that ads bring in revenue so it's a hard call for them... But always gets to me that they claim to be inspiring people with beautiful articles (and many articles really are inspiring), but are adding so much fuel to the "I need everything luxury" fire.
It's as if the content and ads are on completely different wavelengths

Move to Israel. Most of the ads are for things not available here, or so expensive no one has them, or events happening in the states.

amother

Teal

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:31 pm

A powerful thought:

"Our luxuries become our children's necessities"

This is not to stop us from doing what may be needed at times for our sanity, but at the end of the day, children see it and it becomes a requirement for them in their current and future. The way one grew up is usually the baseline for their needs.

It also comes down to inherent *self-worth*. Are we defined by who we are or what we have? Is only what we have who we are or is there more? Dina Friedman has a great class on Self-Worth, where she gives practical tools on building one's self-worth and how to build children's self-worth as well.

Bnei Berak 10

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:36 pm

LovesHashem wrote:

Move to Israel. Most of the ads are for things not available here, or so expensive no one has them, or events happening in the states.

Life is simpler here but there is another attitude here it least in the chareidi yeshivish circle.
DH, Israeli born moved to the US for 22 years. He describes the difference if attitude as follows:
In Israel being chareidi is being poor. That's the *default* and it's not a shame. The whole community don't put emphasize on materialism, Torah and Torah life is The number one thing.
In the US: If you cant afford XYZ you are a nebach and you need to be ashamed of yourself. Being poor is shameful.
Baruch HaShem DH didn't change his attitude and drove his junky car and held his head high Smile

contextual

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:47 pm

Stop blaming the magazines.
Stop blaming in-town people.
It's time to take responsibility for ourselves.
Look at our own spending, are we living a life in tune with our long-term goals?
Are we even enjoying the things we have?
It's not up to anyone but EACH OF US.

Ema of 5

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 12:58 pm

contextual wrote:

Thank you!!!! I wrote and deleted multiple times a post saying exactly this. No one can MAKE you spend money. Just because 5/8 of your neighbors have a pesach kitchen doesn’t mean you NEED one. Just because your best friend just spent $10,000 on a bar mitzvah doesn’t mean you NEED to also. We don’t NEET the things that other people have. Most people aren’t living their lives to show off. On Instagram and on FB, many people live their lives to show off. But that’s not real life. The desire to keep up comes from within. It’s something we all have to work on. If I have the money to make a $10,000 bar mitzvah, I can. If I have the money to do major renovations on my house, I can. If I have the money to take my family to a destination for pesach, I can. I don’t have to spend less because my neighbor can’t afford it. Of course I shouldn’t show off and brag, but that’s a different story.

BaltoMom65

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 1:08 pm

Ema of 5 wrote:

Trust me, the need to keep up or spend freely is a champagne problem. It's not a taiva but a luxury

amother

Orchid

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 2:20 pm

100%

When you feel empty, it's much easier to get sucked into the need for "stuff"

When you learn to develop a REAL, wholesome relationship with Hashem - all of this stuff just fades into the background like it doesn't even mean anything.

This generation has a HUGE thirst for realness, for an authentic connection, for performing Mitzvos with joy!

amother

Ultramarine

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 2:30 pm

chanatron1000 wrote:

It's not just about the level of standards. It's about the underlying values.

Not only. You used to be able to easily find a fresh baby stretchie in a local discount store for 18$ now it starts at 24$. It’s a small difference.

But for teens the jump was huge! Buying a teen a yt outfit shouldn’t be a luxury. What used to costs 85 now costs 120.

amother

Rose

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 2:39 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

I'm not trying to nitpick, but there is
no need to buy stetchies in Jewish stores. I get them from target or carters for about $8. Believe me the baby doesn't care. And yes I live in town in Brooklyn

amother

Begonia

Thu, Dec 21 2023, 2:42 pm

keym wrote:

Can we agree to differentiate between items that ease the burden of a mother of a large family, vs the need for items like designer clothing, jewellery, etc. Those are not anywhere on the same level.

(Speaking as mother and homeowner with 2 dishwashers, 2 ovens, 2 washer dryers pesach kitchen 🙄 but would never spend on designer clothes shoes etc and haven’t bought a piece of jewellery in years... we brought along our old outdated furniture to our new home but yes I have those modern conveniences that I don’t think put me on a level of materialistic)