Issue with a certain chabad rabbi. Who to complain to?

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 6:56 am

amother Oxfordblue wrote:

While this is true, OP didn't wait for long enough to give him a chance to do that. Because she wasn't promised an immediate refund, she immediately disputed the charge.

This isn't true. There was several days until I disputed the charge during which he was unapologetically rude and obnoxious.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 6:58 am

If your a Chabad Rabbi you can act like a madman, say or do whatever you want, do questionable things, make a chilil hashem. Everything flies, as long as your a Chabad Rabbi.

The double standards of imamother.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:02 am

amother OP wrote:

And even more then that, engage respectfully. People are finding a bunch if excuses for him.

1. It costs him money to handle his website and swap out reservations.
2. 100 people are bombarding him at the same time and there's too much for him to deal with.
3. I should find a replacement myself.
4. He didn't immediately have the funds available to refund.

And the point is he didn't say any of this. He went straight to being obnoxious and mocking me. I know we all love chabad (including me) but these are the facts.

Had he said something like.....we are a small operation here and rely on assistance from frum travelers. Do you think you can take back half the money and the rest will be a donation? I'd certainly consider this type of response.

Once a person is being belittled, the respectful conversation is over.

Op, I agree with you 1000%. I have a felling I know exactly which CR your dealing with. Imaother turns a deaf and blind eye when it comes to Chabad.

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:04 am

amother Cadetblue wrote:

This has never been my experience with chabad rabbi's. I've never had a bad experience with any of them.

I do find it disgusting that so many imas here are giving the rabbi a pass for telling me I asked a lousy question when I asked for an address. When I first read his response it completely blew my mind. This is a man who took on an incredible journey (and burden) to help fellow jews with keep mitzvos when traveling. Simply amazing. But how do you talk that way to people? And the excuses people are making for him....just wow.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:05 am

amother Oatmeal wrote:

It would have caused him lots of anxiety, time, and risk to reopen the booking monitoring the website every minute to make sure he closes the booking the minute the right amount of people book.(he probably didn't have food or resources for more)

Why didn't you offer to messages to all your contacts and hustle to replace yourself? Why couldn't you wait a bit to contact him about the refund? This guy is a one man band juggling dozens of people's vacation requests while you only have yourself on your mind. That's why you are not qualified to give advice. Thank you ruining it for everyone. I'm sure the website will say no refunds very soon.

How about it caused op crazy anxiety not to have her hard earned money back. Or being treated with such disrespect. The audacity!

amother

Razzmatazz

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:16 am

Boiling it down to the concrete facts I think its clearer what most likely happened.
You paid for reservations, cancelled, was told it would be refunded when spaces filled, then you saw reservations closed and albeit understandably made an erroneous assumption that that meant he somehow was reneging on refunding based on filling your space. However, when you asked him and he explained you didn't trust what he told you. And you disputed the charge through PayPal.

CPenzias

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:17 am

amother OP wrote:

That's true. And he subsequently told that to me. But it doesn't mean my politely written 2 sentence question to him about opening reservations was out of line. He could have responded:

"I expect to get many calls in the next few days about reservation and I hope to get a replacement that way".

Instead he responded sarcastically ignoring my point and saying he'll make me his manager.

And this is after he told me I asked a "lousy question".

I'm frankly amazed that people here are giving him a pass and saying things like he might have been swamped with emails and what not. Rule #1
Be respectful. Period. He wasn't. He was sarcastic and obnoxious.

I ask any of you if at your work or even personal life if you've ever told am adult they asked you a "lousy question". It is off the charts disrespectful.

Truthfully, I am very turned off by the way he spoke to you. That's not the way to do business and it's not the way to behave, especially if you call yourself a Rabbi

amother

Vanilla

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:26 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Why aren't people reading what OP wrote?

The opening reservations were a side point. He confirmed in the end that he did fill her spots with other vacationers. But then reneged on this promise to give a refund even after several days of communication.

This thread is bizzare. People are twisting the story as much as they can to try and paint him in a good light.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:31 am

amother Vanilla wrote:

He offered food credit.

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:33 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

Pretty accurate except the last part.

His first response to me in discussing a refund after I cancelled was....will try. We closed reservations and will have to get someone to take your spot.

So he made it sound like it was just an issue of finding a replacement which he later acknowledged would be very easy.

I only disputed after he was obnoxious to me and renegedon the refund. .

Ironically I see in his last email to me he says that other people who cancelled got refunds but for me because I was rude we'll let paypal decide.

I can't figure out where I was rude. Some here say that politely asking him how he intends to replace us if his website says reservations are closed was rude. Maybe I'm biased but I'm not getting that at all.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:37 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

He offered food credit.

How on earth does food credit help? Does op live in that area so she can use the food credit? No, it was offered while he know pretty well that it would never be used.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:39 am

Being a Chabad Rabbi is one thing. Once you you open a business selling food it's a BUSINESS! I don't care if he makes money or not. When asking for a refund that is rightfully your in any industry do you check to see if there making money or not?

CPenzias

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:42 am

amother OP wrote:

He's projecting. Telling a person they asked a "lousy question" is disgusting, Rabbi or not. I was really surprised when I read that. When I went to Maui last year I asked so many questions and probably drove the Rabbi crazy but he was nothing but respectful and nice the entire exchange.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:46 am

amother Razzmatazz wrote:

While I understand your upset op I think you misunderstand how these things work.
Going to PayPal to dispute was a real mistake on your part and requires some introspection.
When you point your finger at a person four are pointing back at you.
We have an obligation to be DKLZ and while understandable your assumptions fairly sure you are missing some pieces which would clarify.
To be honest rather than worry about finding someone to whom you can report his behavior I would think long and hard about penning him an apology. And retracting your dispute with Paypal. You might be pleasantly surprised at the outcome
Hatzlocha

Wow just wow!

Scratching Head

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:47 am

amother Steelblue wrote:

I may have missed how much money this is, but we have definitely had issues while traveling not with Chabad. We really enjoy our vacation and it’s definitely not super cheap so if I were in that situation now, or in the future, I would definitely just let it go and consider it a donation and count it towards my meiser. We actually had a problem once with a pesach program and a bunch of people wanted to sue. The lawyer even contacted us, and we said we’d rather just leave with out happy memories then have us hanging over our head. I’m sure you are really right in the money should be coming back to you but somethings are just not worth the stress. Obviously we’re talking thousands of dollars that’s a totally different thing but even if we’re just a few hundred that’s how I would feel. Obviously everybody has their price point that they are not able to ignore and I totally understand that.

Noone gets to tell others how to use there money.

lamplighter

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:54 am

I agree that the shliachs manner of speaker as communicating leaves much to be desired. I don't think you are making this up.
I think if you worded your title and OP asking for advice on what you should do, the responses would have been different. The intention reads "how do I get this chabad rabbi in trouble" as opposed to how do I settle this issue?

amother

Pansy

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:54 am

effess wrote:

I’m watching this conversation and I’m thinking that any Chabad rebbetzin reading this is going to be changing their websites.
And it will not look inviting
No refunds
Not even if you cancel two weeks before
Not even if we find a replacement
Please bring your own food if these rules are too hard for you

OP, you are right in many ways, but it’s not always a good idea to be right. Sometimes, the right thing to do and the peaceful thing to do is to step back, and accept your losses, and if and when you are no longer angry, you can try try to deal with things in a less pressuring, I need it right now, type of way. You make the Jewish traveler seem to be lacking mentchlichkeit.
I’m sorry your trip gave you heartache.

This 100%.

If I was chabad I would blacklist you from reserving again and warn my relatives who also help tourist that you dispute PayPal charges and cancel and demand refunds.
He sounds too busy to do that - so don’t worry. Also, that isn’t in the spirit of chabad.

OP, you were asked multiple times to change your thread title. You think “why should I? I’m entitled to smear a sect based on my interpretation of an interaction with one person from that sect.”

amother

Tomato

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 8:02 am

But again if you cancel your reservation doesn’t mean you deserve a refund. In certain situations there is no refund and he would have been better off just saying that. He was trying to offer you some compensation in the form of food credit which he didn’t need to do and in return you disputed the charge. Whatever he said was also not nice but now you caused him money loss and he has to deal with this with pay pal. Really not nice of you.