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-> Parenting our children
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amother
Tiffanyblue
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 Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:11 pm
| amother Whitesmoke wrote: | | Cognitive Rigidity, being stuck in victim mode, inability to take responsibility are all signs of an over-aroused nervous system stuck in fight flight. |
What can you do about this? My 6 year old acts similar to OPs daughter and this sounds like it might be it.
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amother
Maple
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:12 pm
| amother OP wrote: | She likely does have anxieties. Though I can't say for sure she doesn't have another issue also.
How does a neuropsych get to the bottom of it when the child doesn't present these problems to them at the appointment? Is it all based on the parent's say-so? |
They do all kinds of testing. They know how to evaluate even when the children don’t perform those behaviors in front of them. My son is super embarrassed to even tell the therapist any of the things he does.
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amother
Teal
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:14 pm
Have u checked her for strep or perianal strep? Celiac? Lactose intolerance? Pinworms? All can cause stomach pain...and if something is going on in the stomach, it won't be absorbing the essential nutrients needed for the brain to function...and then you get the rigid behaviours, anxiety, etc...
(My son has very hard to get rid of perianal strep but his main symptom is stomach pain and nausea and the rigid behaviours sound very similar...he becomes less rigid with antibiotics btw)...
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amother
NeonPink
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:20 pm
My daughter was exactly like this.
What helped was not getting into a power struggle with her. Being flexible to teach flexibility. Giving in. Letting her be right and have her way as much as possible. She calmed down so much after a few months of no more fighting. Once she was more settled and relaxed we slowly introduced limits again although very loosely, and it worked.
Obviously within reason. I didn’t just let her do dangerous things. I got so much criticism at the time from well meaning people who thought I was crazy.
She’s grown up into a wonderful young woman so I know I was right.
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amother
Hawthorn
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:22 pm
| amother OP wrote: | She likely does have anxieties. Though I can't say for sure she doesn't have another issue also.
How does a neuropsych get to the bottom of it when the child doesn't present these problems to them at the appointment? Is it all based on the parent's say-so? |
They can pick up on a lot. I remember when I took my son for an OT evaluation and I thought he was so well behaved and they totally didn’t see any of his issues. But when we discussed it after, the therapist pointed out all the “small” things that he did that weren’t typical/age appropriate. Like transitions were one of his big challenges and even though he didn’t have a meltdown there, which happened all the time at home, she had to use a few different techniques to get him from activity to activity, which a “normal” kid wouldn’t have needed. There were a few other examples.
She also included everything I said in the evaluation, even behaviors that he didn’t display there (she just made note of them.) It’s normal for some behaviors not to present itself with strangers and a good evaluator will factor that in.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:27 pm
| amother NeonPink wrote: | My daughter was exactly like this.
What helped was not getting into a power struggle with her. Being flexible to teach flexibility. Giving in. Letting her be right and have her way as much as possible. She calmed down so much after a few months of no more fighting. Once she was more settled and relaxed we slowly introduced limits again although very loosely, and it worked.
Obviously within reason. I didn’t just let her do dangerous things. I got so much criticism at the time from well meaning people who thought I was crazy.
She’s grown up into a wonderful young woman so I know I was right. |
Thank you for this post.
I was so expecting everyone to say I shouldn't be giving in. I would kind of say this has been an issue since way back and whenever I go to family I know they think I should be enforcing more boundaries. I do often try also because that's what the world always says is right. But I've realized there is no point. I think she just needs love and only love (which I will admit I don't give enough of, I need to work on giving her much more attention), no boundaries. But I didn't know if I was crazy for thinking that. I needed this validation.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:28 pm
| amother Teal wrote: | Have u checked her for strep or perianal strep? Celiac? Lactose intolerance? Pinworms? All can cause stomach pain...and if something is going on in the stomach, it won't be absorbing the essential nutrients needed for the brain to function...and then you get the rigid behaviours, anxiety, etc...
(My son has very hard to get rid of perianal strep but his main symptom is stomach pain and nausea and the rigid behaviours sound very similar...he becomes less rigid with antibiotics btw)... |
Celiac, yes. It was negative. I'm not sure about lactose intolerance. How is it diagnosed?
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amother
Maple
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:29 pm
| amother NeonPink wrote: | My daughter was exactly like this.
What helped was not getting into a power struggle with her. Being flexible to teach flexibility. Giving in. Letting her be right and have her way as much as possible. She calmed down so much after a few months of no more fighting. Once she was more settled and relaxed we slowly introduced limits again although very loosely, and it worked.
Obviously within reason. I didn’t just let her do dangerous things. I got so much criticism at the time from well meaning people who thought I was crazy.
She’s grown up into a wonderful young woman so I know I was right. |
This is so interesting. What about things like going to bed and school and screen time ? I do this with him for basically everything else like food, activities, social things etc. But some things are non negotiable. He can’t stay home from school, go to sleep at midnight, and watch tv all day. But these are our biggest fights. What did you do for things like that?
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:29 pm
| amother Hawthorn wrote: | They can pick up on a lot. I remember when I took my son for an OT evaluation and I thought he was so well behaved and they totally didn’t see any of his issues. But when we discussed it after, the therapist pointed out all the “small” things that he did that weren’t typical/age appropriate. Like transitions were one of his big challenges and even though he didn’t have a meltdown there, which happened all the time at home, she had to use a few different techniques to get him from activity to activity, which a “normal” kid wouldn’t have needed. There were a few other examples.
She also included everything I said in the evaluation, even behaviors that he didn’t display there (she just made note of them.) It’s normal for some behaviors not to present itself with strangers and a good evaluator will factor that in. |
Where am I meant to start? Evaluation? Also OT? I really don't know how to about this...
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:38 pm
| amother OP wrote: | Thank you for this post.
I was so expecting everyone to say I shouldn't be giving in. I would kind of say this has been an issue since way back and whenever I go to family I know they think I should be enforcing more boundaries. I do often try also because that's what the world always says is right. But I've realized there is no point. I think she just needs love and only love (which I will admit I don't give enough of, I need to work on giving her much more attention), no boundaries. But I didn't know if I was crazy for thinking that. I needed this validation. |
\just to add on to this post of mine - although I believe this is the right approach because she's just completely unable to understand the boundaries, I also worry that maybe she won't grow out of it.
Like shouldn't a 7 year old have an emotional maturity that they should be able to understand when you reason with them?
I sometimes feel like in this sense her maturity is of a child much younger than her. And in a way that's more worrying to me than the actual behaviors.
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imasinger
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:51 pm
You can start looking for an evaluation in one of several ways. Ask your pediatrician, talk to friends, talk to her school.
For OT, you often can get an eval from a place that does it.
Look for teachable moments, when you can point out your own process of flexibility in matters that she's not directly involved in (and therefore less likely to process). Talk about it as an ideal when at mealtimes.
Most of all, do your utmost to catch any signs of her being flexible or doing any good perspective taking, and praise her for it. That's in addition to just looking to spend more quality time with her letting her know on a daily basis that you appreciate who she is.
Hatzlacha!
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amother
NeonPink
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:55 pm
| amother Maple wrote: | | This is so interesting. What about things like going to bed and school and screen time ? I do this with him for basically everything else like food, activities, social things etc. But some things are non negotiable. He can’t stay home from school, go to sleep at midnight, and watch tv all day. But these are our biggest fights. What did you do for things like that? |
I would phrase things as facts rather than commands. Bedtime is at 8 vs you have to go to bed in 10 minutes.
and I would make her feel like she won an imaginary battle. She would say I want to stay up 15 minutes later. I would say 5 minutes. She negotiated back and we settled on 8 minutes.
She won 8 minutes extra and I won a peaceful bedtime only a little later than I wanted.
We negotiated alot. Once we got to a place where she calmed down and we weren’t fighting over everything she slowly began to trust me when I say this is not good for you and explain why. Honestly she was a work in progress until at least 10.
Expect years of keeping patient and being loving. Eventually it will pay off.
I posted on imamother when she was little asking for help exactly like you. Someone told me that these kids will grow up to become strong powerful ceo type go getter adults and our job is to keep them safe until they are old enough to grow into their personality.
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amother
NeonPink
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:01 pm
| amother OP wrote: | \just to add on to this post of mine - although I believe this is the right approach because she's just completely unable to understand the boundaries, I also worry that maybe she won't grow out of it.
Like shouldn't a 7 year old have an emotional maturity that they should be able to understand when you reason with them?
I sometimes feel like in this sense her maturity is of a child much younger than her. And in a way that's more worrying to me than the actual behaviors. |
I was worried about this too but she’s so mature and responsible and smart and logical now. Give her time.
I also think she had a bit of PANDAS going on too and reaching puberty erased it all and she turned so normal and mature.
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amother
Maple
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:09 pm
| amother NeonPink wrote: | I would phrase things as facts rather than commands. Bedtime is at 8 vs you have to go to bed in 10 minutes.
and I would make her feel like she won an imaginary battle. She would say I want to stay up 15 minutes later. I would say 5 minutes. She negotiated back and we settled on 8 minutes.
She won 8 minutes extra and I won a peaceful bedtime only a little later than I wanted.
We negotiated alot. Once we got to a place where she calmed down and we weren’t fighting over everything she slowly began to trust me when I say this is not good for you and explain why. Honestly she was a work in progress until at least 10.
Expect years of keeping patient and being loving. Eventually it will pay off.
I posted on imamother when she was little asking for help exactly like you. Someone told me that these kids will grow up to become strong powerful ceo type go getter adults and our job is to keep them safe until they are old enough to grow into their personality. |
It’s interesting because I have a much harder time with this child than my husband because I am way more strict and firm and stubborn. He gives in a lot and I give him a hard time about it. But I guess maybe with a kid like this you need to be more flexible. It’s hard because it goes against the typical rules of parenting. But the truth is that it doesn’t work otherwise. It just ends up being an endless horrible fight. And I end up feeling like the meanest worst mom in the world.
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amother
Whitesmoke
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:17 pm
| amother Blush wrote: | | Not op but you sound smart lol. How would you go about addressing such a concern? | Figuring out why the nervous system is stuck. Top reasons being gut issues like food intolerances, dysbiosis, yeast, parasites, chronic infections and inflammation especially strep, oral dysfunction such as mouth breathing, oral ties, crowding, tongue ties etc.
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mushkamothers
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:23 pm
1. It's not your parenting. You got some good leads here. I'd first rule out anything physical like pinworms, strep then look into an evaluation.
2. Start a list on your phone writing down incidents. What happened and date. It will help a lot to bring to evaluators, it will validate that you're not crazy and there's a pattern, it will possibly help you find patterns in time or diet or circumstance like X behavior always happens after Y.
Also, when you're writing things down, you'll start noticing them more and it could be the tiniest clues that will provide the most insight. Like maybe the stomach is the root of all the issues and you mentioned it as an afterthought.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:25 pm
| amother Whitesmoke wrote: | | Figuring out why the nervous system is stuck. Top reasons being gut issues like food intolerances, dysbiosis, yeast, parasites, chronic infections and inflammation especially strep, oral dysfunction such as mouth breathing, oral ties, crowding, tongue ties etc. |
She keeps complaining about stomach aches so she likely does have gut issues. How do I get to the bottom of it though?
So far I was just told everything was okay and nothing really do to about it...
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amother
Whitesmoke
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:34 pm
| amother OP wrote: | She keeps complaining about stomach aches so she likely does have gut issues. How do I get to the bottom of it though?
So far I was just told everything was okay and nothing really do to about it... | She could have strep overgrowth in her gut. Or possibly yeast or parasites. Or gluten intolerance or dairy. Or all of the above. Or maybe she's constipated? Or not digesting food well?
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amother
Cognac
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:43 pm
| amother NeonPink wrote: | I would phrase things as facts rather than commands. Bedtime is at 8 vs you have to go to bed in 10 minutes.
and I would make her feel like she won an imaginary battle. She would say I want to stay up 15 minutes later. I would say 5 minutes. She negotiated back and we settled on 8 minutes.
She won 8 minutes extra and I won a peaceful bedtime only a little later than I wanted.
We negotiated alot. Once we got to a place where she calmed down and we weren’t fighting over everything she slowly began to trust me when I say this is not good for you and explain why. Honestly she was a work in progress until at least 10.
Expect years of keeping patient and being loving. Eventually it will pay off.
I posted on imamother when she was little asking for help exactly like you. Someone told me that these kids will grow up to become strong powerful ceo type go getter adults and our job is to keep them safe until they are old enough to grow into their personality. |
I like this a lot. Sometimes it takes some hard work and some patience and then you will see the fruits of your labor. I have a child who was very challenging from Age 5- 9. When he reached 10 years old, there was an improvement.
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amother
OP
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Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:52 pm
| amother Whitesmoke wrote: | | She could have strep overgrowth in her gut. Or possibly yeast or parasites. Or gluten intolerance or dairy. Or all of the above. Or maybe she's constipated? Or not digesting food well? |
But how do I get her tested for all this?
We took her to a pediatric gastroenterologist but nothing came of it.
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