Should teenagers be charging friends?

mommyhood

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 6:07 pm

amother OP wrote:

I brought up his age as one (of several) reasons why I didn't feel he should charge.

I think it was in response to someone who said that sharing a car with others is a bit of a burden. I said I agree. However, when a kid is 18 and just got their license and car, they usually don't feel driving is a burden they way adults do.

This alone is certainly not a reason not to pay him.

I loved having my license, would happily run any errand my parents asked, go with my friends to the mall etc. But when I drove 3 friends to Baltimore for a wedding of course everyone contributed nicely even though we also had a great time together. And when I was part of a carpool to college starting at 18 of course we charged the girls who were just passengers and never drove. Every extra girl was another pickup, another drop off and less room to spread out in the car.
I’m actually much less likely to charge now than I was back then. Back then $20 felt like a huge amount of money and every extra dollar made a difference in my future. Now it just feels like a drop in the bucket.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 6:13 pm

farm wrote:

You are going to the exact same bus stop at the exact same time to get your kids. What’s the big deal to get hers too?
Your kids are hanging out in the backyard or playroom letting out some energy after a long day in school. What’s the big deal to add a couple of extra kids? In fact, your kids will be occupied and happier for longer because they have additional playmates. Hey, maybe you should pay her for having her kids over after school!

I'm sorry, but if you are comparing an adult mom actually taking home another child and babysitting for them regularly, to a teenage boy driving home and giving his friends a ride (sharing gas and tolls) then we think differently.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 6:17 pm

amother Firethorn wrote:

OP, the problem is that you are not transactional by nature.
You do things for people, and I am sure you stretch yourself to do them and do them with pleasure. It hurts when you are happy to do favors and help others and people don’t reciprocate in kind.
Apparently, most women here are not wired like you are. I have learned here long ago -especially reading hosting/making meals/carpooling/having other people’s kids Shabbos afternoon threads that people only help out when it is of absolute no tircha to them at all, are happy to say no and think everything is a boundary and self care.
B”H I am likeminded with you. I imagine you probably grew up with a good home-life, with parents who wanted to do/give to you and modeled chessed, even when it was sometimes a little hard.

I think you nailed it. I'm amazed at the detailed calculations I see here that some expect their friend to calculate and charge. Wear and tear on the old car? What about the oil change? Tires anyone?

You're right, I just never thought this way. I still don't believe most people do with friends.

ittsamother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 6:32 pm

Wow, I didn't realize this thread kept going. OP, I think you were on target with all your posts. I agree that some of the comparisons were a little ridiculous.

If I had to go to the bus stop every day and my neighbor asked if I wouldn't mind just taking her kids along as I pass my house, since mornings are really hard for her, I'd be very happy with the easy opportunity to do a chessed every day.

If I go to the supermarket every Sunday and my friend who lives right near me asked if I wouldn't mind always picking up some milk and eggs for her too, she'll give me her account number, because Sundays are really hard for her to get out, I would do that with pleasure and I would never think of charging.

When I was a young single, I didn't have a car, I took public transportation everywhere, or paid for car services when absolutely necessary with my limited funds. Workmates often gave me rides on a very regular basis, friends gave me rides, no one EVER EVER charged me. Ever. EVER. If I'd had more money I would have offered to pay for gas but honestly I didn't have much.

When I finally was in a position to get a car I promised myself I would give rides whenever I could. For 2 years until I moved away, I gave rides home from work daily to my friends, and never once did I even think of charging. Yes, I had to wait sometimes for them, yes, sometimes it was a little out of my way, but I loved my easy chance to do chessed, and I enjoyed chatting with them.

OP, I'm fully with you. Especially when it's on their way already, friends do favors for friends and don't turn them into business opportunities cuz then it's not a friendship anymore, it's a business relationship.

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:15 pm

amother OP wrote:

I'm sorry, but if you are comparing an adult mom actually taking home another child and babysitting for them regularly, to a teenage boy driving home abd giving his friends a ride (sharing gas and tolls) then we think differently.

exactly what I said before. You don't like it because of the fact that he is a kid. Guess what kids are people too!

amother

Gardenia

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:17 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

An 18 year old is an adult in my opinion. A 15 year old no. But a 18 year old may very well (and should be in my opinion) responsible for earning his own expenses and pocket money. I think the biggest issue is you are considering him like a little kid and his time not being worth $.

So a 15 year-olds time is worthless?

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:36 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

exactly what I said before. You don't like it because of the fact that he is a kid. Guess what kids are people too!

Not really, it's exactly like itsamother is saying.

I grew up entirely opposed to the mantality of charging friends in situations like this. When I was that age it wouldn't have crossed my mind to charge and it still wouldn't now.

I guess people are different and some feel charging friends in these types of scenarios is perfectly ok.

I can't imagine once a week my friend hands me a $20 bill for the wear and tear on my car as well as the depreciation in value as a result of her added weight which caused a bigger burdan on the cars engine. Like, what??? But ok, we're different.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:46 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

My main issues is that he's my son's good friend and he's driving anyway. In my world that means we don't take money.

I'm coming around to the fact that many people here taking their calculators out and basically print an itemized receipt as to what to charge for in this situation.

Factors involved are:

1. It's out of the way
2. He wanted to listen to his music.
3. He wanted quiet.
4. It took an extra 12 minutes to drop everyone (his friends) at their door.
5. Wear and tear.
6. Mileage.
7. Weight in the car causes excessive gas usage.
8. Did I leave anything out?

amother

Purple

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:48 pm

amother OP wrote:

אַרְבַּע מִדּוֹת בָּאָדָם. הָאוֹמֵר שֶׁלִּי שֶׁלִּי וְשֶׁלְּךָ שֶׁלְּךָ, זוֹ מִדָּה בֵינוֹנִית. וְיֵשׁ אוֹמְרִים, זוֹ מִדַּת סְדוֹם. שֶׁלִּי שֶׁלְּךָ וְשֶׁלְּךָ שֶׁלִּי, עַם הָאָרֶץ. .

amother

Rose

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 7:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

Op ideally you are right and people should do favors. But there are other factors involved which make it understandable to the rest of us that he has to charge such as coming from a broken home, being a yeshiva guy with limited ways to make money, being business minded etc... I think you need to let it go. Either use his services and pay or find another ride for your son.

amother

Papaya

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

Op, you are misunderstanding many posters.
Those arguing with you aren't necessarily saying it's what they would do, or is the best things to do, or must be done. They are saying that you assuming that it's wrong for him to charge is wrong and entitled. The posters aren't saying that they know why he would charge or if they think he should or shouldn't. They are responding to the fact that you are judging him saying it is wrong to do so. To which we are saying- no, you cannot say that. There may be so many ways of looking at it and reasons why he would charge.
It's not your place to argue why it's wrong and expect them to give you this service for free. Sounds entitled.

amother

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:37 pm

amother Purple wrote:

There is no way anyone can accuse me of not being a giver. I give without asking questions. I'm not going to sit here giving specific examples but I am fortunate enough to be on the giving side no questions asked. That's why I'm surprised by the story but I guess people are different.

singleagain

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:45 pm

OP I think part of the problem is that your focus so much on whether or not this young man is a friend to your son that you're not really being a friend to him.

I only consider someone a friend if we both give to each other. And it doesn't necessarily have to mean the same type of giving.

It could just be that you give differently than this young man.

I have some friends who I am more than willing to help even if it's out of my way to and others who I won't do that for. And usually it's because of the attitude that comes along with it.

Friendship is not just in the actions between the two but a lot of times it's in the attitude towards those actions.

notshanarishona

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 8:47 pm

amother Gardenia wrote:

So a 15 year-olds time is worthless?

Not at all.. but I do beshita think that someone who is an adult and needs the $ it’s more reasonable for them to charge professional rates for services vs a kid. I also wouldn’t feel comfortable with many 15 year olds for a long drive anyway.

amother

Purple

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:18 pm

amother OP wrote:

שֶׁלִּי שֶׁלְּךָ וְשֶׁלְּךָ שֶׁלִּי, עַם הָאָרֶץ

No one said you’re not a giver … but you want to take the same way you give.

amother

Hyssop

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 9:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

No one did detailed calculations except you.

What I and others said is theres more going on than just "gas and tolls". The proper thing is to offer to give more than gas and tolls and at Ieast not put down the boy for asking. How much? Something.

It is fine and nice, and completely appropriate, to not charge when its YOUR car and youre driving.
Its not nice to expect it of otbers.

But yes, he should charge much less than an uber

amother

Chestnut

Mon, Feb 12 2024, 10:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

He's driving anyway. That is not your cheshbon to make. It stinks that his ride is changing the terms mid-year but this is a terrible terrible argument. I'm sure you don't take advantage of people, but the people who DO take advantage all the time always say this . "Oh but you're doing this anyway/ going there anyway. " that's for the person doing the favor to say. Not the one accepting the favor. And ,yes,it's still a favor even if the passengers are paying gas and tolls.