Mishpacha Double Take

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 5:45 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

This article reminded me of when I started using the eruv and my friend who doesn’t asked me to push her stroller. I told her that I would do it but I wasn’t comfortable with her asking me. And she never asked again and we’re still friends.

I live in a place where I don’t use the eruv but I have a couple of good friends who do. There was something going on one week when they both let me know before Shabbos that they’d be glad to push my stroller for me. I thanked them and thought they’re the nicest neighbors but dh told me since we don’t use the eruv I can’t have them get our baby there for us. I’m not sure this is right for everyone but I’m putting it out here so people will know it’s not simple.

As far as using the internet at your friend’s house, I was one thousand percent on Nina’s side. You want to have that level of kedusha, don’t get it at someone else’s expense. If I want a very high level of elegance in home decor I also don’t expect my neighbor to pay for it (even though now that I think of it, sounds convenient, and then at my daughter’s vort I could introduce her to my new machatenista as the good friend and neighbor who bought the stunning furniture that so impressed their son, he proposed to my daughter).

fiji

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 5:46 pm

As someone who has been the Internet cafe for two different neighbors in two different cities, I can honestly say that I didn’t mind in the least. I was happy to help out and help my neighbor maintain her preferred levels of kedusha in her home. That being said, if I did mind I would just tell her that I would prefer she doesn’t use my computer/internet unless its an emergency.

amother

Narcissus

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 5:54 pm

amother Pear wrote:

I would be happy to help a friend out with internet access once in a while, to renew a passport or to pay a ticket or something. But it would be a big imposition for someone to be ordering bunches of packages through my computer or planning with wedding vendors, especially if they regularly need my intervention.

If Nina wants to keep doing the favor (and I'm not saying she should), she could avoid resentment and minimize inconvenience by simply buying a cheap laptop to be dedicated for Aidel's exclusive use in a front room right by the door. Set it up with its own Google account with email and everything, call it something pareve like "Computer234567." Yes, it sounds odd, but practically it would address a lot of the inconveniences and intrusions, not to mention the switching of internet settings. And Aidel can keep telling shidduch references that she doesn't have internet at home.

You must be a super nice person to think of this so please don’t be offended when I say I think that’s ridiculous.
Why does Aidel need to tell references she doesn’t have internet at home? According to your generous plan, she has a dedicated computer shel uses all the time. If she’s such a great tzadekes on such a high level of kedusha, shouldn’t it occur to her she’s being dishonest?
What’s playing in my head is “midvar sheker tirchak” from Dr Middos (aka Abie Rottenberg).

Halachic Shayla for Double Take:
Let’s say the Kadosh’s allow their son to marry Aidel’s daughter and then find out Aidel spends dozens of hours a week at a computer ten yards from her front door in her neighbor’s home. Can they consider the kiddushin a mekach ta’us?

amother

Pear

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 6:01 pm

amother Narcissus wrote:

I don't think she needs to tell people this, but it seems it is significant in her circles. Also, her mechutanim didn't seem to mind when Nina revealed she uses other people's internet regularly, so maybe they just wanted to check that box and they do the same thing themselves. I consider such ritual dances silly, but it's not my circles and not my problem. As they used to say in the USSR, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us." That was not a good system either, but again not my business.

amother

Chambray

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 6:27 pm

My son's yeshiva, for some reason, sends a lot of the divrei torah and notes from the rebbe in yiddish. My sweet neighbor is always so happy to translate them for me. It's probably more annoying than I think.

I would feel very hurt to hear that deep inside, she's like Nina and is resenting my requests. I hope that if it's too much for her, she would just politely tell me.

amother

Skyblue

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 6:31 pm

I think what got me was when Nina’s daughter told her how amazing she was bec she doesn’t have internet and Nina kept her mouth shut that it’s only bec of her she doesn’t, .. I’m yeshivish and had people come of my house everyday bring there kids make a mess and then not even notice and leave I was so frustrated and didn’t know how to say no , then had a friend who always called me to just order one thing for her or check something on her email I was so upset she expected me to drop everything for her and she didn’t realize it took time , I finally learned to say no but was very challenging time and left me with a very bad taste to all those holly people who I agree with Nina are really not that holly

amother

DarkGray

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 6:37 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

Yours is a different situation. You can't speak yiddish - its not that you're choosing to not understand. I would gladly help you anytime.

We are talking about people who intentionally choose not to have internet and then expect others to step up for them. This is a situation where I feel taken advantage of. They can easily help themselves but choose not to.

amother

Crocus

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 7:26 pm

I didn't have time to read it yet but reading the comments I can of understand the gist of it!
I have a couple of friends who don't have smart phones that call me on the way home from work to know if it says anything in TLS about the terrible traffic... LOL

I usually answer "oh I'll check later I'm in the middle of making supper!" But I find it amusing!

amother

Mulberry

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 7:52 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

I'm 100% team Aidel.

Speaking as someone who has been taken advantage of and had to learn to say no.

When I set limits for my non internet having relatives and neighbors, the normal ones were so sweet and apologetic. If I stayed quiet and stewed, that would be my problem, not theirs.

I think these posts are missing the point of the story.

It didn't seem as if Nina minded doing the chesed. It was the way it was presented to her - WE are careful in preserving the kedusha of our doros (and by extension you are not) and we are therefore much holier than you... it feels, after the fact, that she's been had. I pretty sure Nina wouldn't have minded at all if Aidel said - I don't have internet for whatever reason (too expensive? ) can you help me. Maybe I'm projecting but that's how I would feel.

amother

Honeysuckle

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 9:36 pm

I dont think the article was written fairly.
it was written strongly towards Nina's side.
I agreen aidel was wrong in THIS STORY
but it doesnt make every situation of someone helping their friend bad.
as always, mishpacha has an agenda and they were trying to knock a certain sect or yidden.
if they wouold knock them in a article form, it would not be ok
but in a story, somehow it goes.

amother

Poinsettia

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 9:45 pm

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

I didn't think so at all. No-one likes a rebbetzin. The way Aidel describes having a device as something really tumah - and there are people who talk this way. That's fine, but it isn't better to eat pork at your neighbor's. And if you feel that strongly about a device, kol hakavod (genuinely!), but don't spend hours at your neighbor using it. There are people who won't even look at a picture on someone else's smartphone - good for them! I'm not saying you need to go to that level but if you believe no-one should have a device, why are you using it at your friend's house? Tell the shadchan, "I'm sorry, I don't have email. Would you mind faxing it or sending it by post?" Yes, it is old-fashioned, but this is the life this woman has chosen to live.

amother

Electricblue

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 10:18 pm

amother Chambray wrote:

I don’t know if your neighbor minds or not as I am not her, but there’s a relatively new feature on google translate where you can upload a picture of a document and it will translate it for you.

chanatron1000

Sun, Feb 18 2024, 10:25 pm

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

But this story was about Aidel and Nina, not about how bad every situation of people helping their friends is.

dancingqueen

Mon, Feb 19 2024, 12:06 am

amother Honeysuckle wrote:

It’s good to do favors for friends when you can. It’s not to good to EXPECT friends to continually provide you with ongoing favors especially when making it clear that you need the favor because you’re better than them.

amother

Blueberry

Mon, Feb 19 2024, 12:34 am

Just read this, thanks for sharing. Oh wow, am I triggered now big time! I had the exact same issue with some relatives who not only don't have devices but don't even text and were literally using me all the time for all their internet related needs, which I have for work only. Thankfully, I was working with a therapist at that time regarding one of my children and this issue came up and she brought the awareness that I really don't have to be doing this and I can actually say no, especially that these relatives were contacting me at the worst times, when I was already stretched so thin. Once it was brought to my awareness, I felt such resentment towards these relatives who are clueless and harmless and meant no bad, just the fact that this is what they were using me for. I thankfully put a full stop to it and they never asked me again. I'm 100% with Nina and think it was absolutely wrong of the neighbor to use her so easily and for such non urgent matters. Life this therapist taught me, if you make a decision to keep your home internet free, then you have to live with that decision and without the conveniences of modern technology, such as shopping in real stores and sometimes spending more etc. and if they want the conveniences, they can get internet or manage otherwise. I don't need to be their go to person. BH I learnt about codependent relationships and how to say no.
I also had a neighbor who asked a few times to use my laptop or wifi and the answer is absolutely no. I will not be the Shabbos [gentile] for someone who won't do this in their own home.

Actually, I recently bh gave up my smartphone (which I had for work but used for personal as well) and all the conveniences that come along with it and know this is something that was my choice and yes, I need to forego those conveniences for something so much greater and that is the chinuch I want to give my children that a mother doesn't need a smartphone.

amother

Steel

Mon, Feb 19 2024, 3:46 am

amother Electricblue wrote:

I don’t know if your neighbor minds or not as I am not her, but there’s a relatively new feature on google translate where you can upload a picture of a document and it will translate it for you.

I don't think google translate is going to give a very good translation, especially for a language with as few speakers as Yiddish. Maybe it could work if you only need a vague idea of what's written.

amother

Natural

Mon, Feb 19 2024, 10:27 am

amother Steel wrote:

Yiddish is actually having a comeback as of the last few years, in academic circles. Books are being reprinted, scholars are writing papers etc It probably is actually going to do a decent job translating.