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-> Household Management
-> Finances
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amother
White
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 Wed, Mar 27 2024, 4:53 pm
Just check out the new "How much would you spend on" thread.
Only in America is there such extravagance. Not saying it's a bad thing but in Israel, most people could not spend those numbers on those kind of things.
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amother
Cyclamen
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 5:17 pm
| amother Hibiscus wrote: | I've lived in both places. What I can say is this
1. There is a growing class of Israelis that are very into materialism. They throw fancy simchas, have fancy wigs, take luxury European vacations and have stunning apartments. It's all smaller than in America but the salaries are also about half of what they are in America, so it all evens out. MANY Israelis live in the minus and somehow are still making fancy shabbos meals every week. Maybe there isn't a pressure, idk, but in my experience there is definitely a growing materialism in Israel that wasn't there before. All of the major American Jewish clothing stores have come to Israel, and trust me when you walk in you hear plenty of hebrew!!! So stop kidding yourself that in Israel it's all so pashut and simple. Bc it's not!
I knew someone with a boy in a very popular school in rbs who said she had to make this boy a bar mitzvah party with a dj bc that's what all his friends were doing. My old neighbor had cousins in Jlem and she said the wedding she went to was so over the top she couldn't believe her eyes.
Or my personal favorite, people in neighborhoods pushing fancy strollers, buying fancy clothes, etc. But they are also taking tzedaka for "needy families in EY"
2. At the same time, the Israeli materialism will never reach the level of the in town materialism but that makes sense, considering salaries and cultural differences.
Go to bnai brak, jlem, rbs, rananana, herziliya and Northern tel aviv...you see plenty of materialism there charedi, DL and chiloni
It will never be America BUT to deny it doesn't exist isn't true! |
It really depends on the area, I have lived in the same neighbourhood in 2 different areas, in the area I live in now, I will only buy shoes/clothes etc I will feel comfortable to send my children out in (I ordered shoes that arrived in the wrong color and I wouldn't let her wear it, I was worried she would 'stand out'), I'm much more self conscious on clothes, style looking put together etc many neighbours have cars even though they are in Kollel (yes some are falling apart but many are decent looking).
In the other area I lived previously I could take my children out in mix-match clothes and they will fit right in with everyone else as no one bats an eyelid. everyone is grateful for the boxes of clothes that come from Chul every month or 2 and find something for free that fits their children regardless if it was in fashion 5 or 10 years ago (bonuses if they have the same color so that they match)!
When I go visit my sister who lives in Romema area, the pressure there is to a NEW level! They are all in designers matching, very few will do hand-me-downs (was great for me, I got all her designer clothes for my kids). I'm coming from my area where my kids look extremely fancy and I'm really proud with how they are looking but then as we get off the bus I feel like we are completely out of place. Im not pushing a designer stroller, my wig isn't latest style and my kids are not wearing brands.
Yes there are areas with peer pressure and yes there are areas without. unless you have lived in every single kehilla, you can't generalize.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 5:54 pm
| amother Hibiscus wrote: | I've lived in both places. What I can say is this
1. There is a growing class of Israelis that are very into materialism. They throw fancy simchas, have fancy wigs, take luxury European vacations and have stunning apartments. It's all smaller than in America but the salaries are also about half of what they are in America, so it all evens out. MANY Israelis live in the minus and somehow are still making fancy shabbos meals every week. Maybe there isn't a pressure, idk, but in my experience there is definitely a growing materialism in Israel that wasn't there before. All of the major American Jewish clothing stores have come to Israel, and trust me when you walk in you hear plenty of hebrew!!! So stop kidding yourself that in Israel it's all so pashut and simple. Bc it's not!
I knew someone with a boy in a very popular school in rbs who said she had to make this boy a bar mitzvah party with a dj bc that's what all his friends were doing. My old neighbor had cousins in Jlem and she said the wedding she went to was so over the top she couldn't believe her eyes.
Or my personal favorite, people in neighborhoods pushing fancy strollers, buying fancy clothes, etc. But they are also taking tzedaka for "needy families in EY"
2. At the same time, the Israeli materialism will never reach the level of the in town materialism but that makes sense, considering salaries and cultural differences.
Go to bnai brak, jlem, rbs, rananana, herziliya and Northern tel aviv...you see plenty of materialism there charedi, DL and chiloni
It will never be America BUT to deny it doesn't exist isn't true! |
This !
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Bnei Berak 10
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 6:27 pm
| amother Hibiscus wrote: | I've lived in both places. What I can say is this
1. There is a growing class of Israelis that are very into materialism. They throw fancy simchas, have fancy wigs, take luxury European vacations and have stunning apartments. It's all smaller than in America but the salaries are also about half of what they are in America, so it all evens out. MANY Israelis live in the minus and somehow are still making fancy shabbos meals every week. Maybe there isn't a pressure, idk, but in my experience there is definitely a growing materialism in Israel that wasn't there before. All of the major American Jewish clothing stores have come to Israel, and trust me when you walk in you hear plenty of hebrew!!! So stop kidding yourself that in Israel it's all so pashut and simple. Bc it's not!
I knew someone with a boy in a very popular school in rbs who said she had to make this boy a bar mitzvah party with a dj bc that's what all his friends were doing. My old neighbor had cousins in Jlem and she said the wedding she went to was so over the top she couldn't believe her eyes.
Or my personal favorite, people in neighborhoods pushing fancy strollers, buying fancy clothes, etc. But they are also taking tzedaka for "needy families in EY"
2. At the same time, the Israeli materialism will never reach the level of the in town materialism but that makes sense, considering salaries and cultural differences.
Go to bnai brak, jlem, rbs, rananana, herziliya and Northern tel aviv...you see plenty of materialism there charedi, DL and chiloni
It will never be America BUT to deny it doesn't exist isn't true! |
There is good shopping in BB *but* statistics spell it out clearly: It's one of the poorest cities in Israel. They most popular wedding hall in BB is Armonot Chen which belongs to a large tzedaka organization so No fancy over the top weddings there.
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amother
Nasturtium
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 7:10 pm
There are all kinds of people in the U.S. and in Israel. That’s the bottom line.
I always thought Israelis were simpler until a family wedding a few years ago. My family isn’t well to do and no one has rten thousand dollar wigs or designer clothes. There was a group from the other side from Israel. Their wigs, their gowns, their jewelry, were all magnificent. We looked like country bumpkins next to them. From a mile away you could tell who belonged to that Israeli side of the family. You could tel they thought highly of themselves too.
I’ve since come across other Israelis of that sort. They have a different mentality than the wealthy Americans I know too. You get the feeling they know their wealth puts them in a different category. Americans are more democratic and won’t necessarily think they’re better people because they can afford designer clothes.
It might just be an Israeli attitude type of thing, because some of the very simple have nots from israel also come across as knowing they’re a superior life form compared to their clueless American fellow Jews.
There are all kinds of people everywhere. If you think everyone in America enjoys a high standard of living or everyone in Israel wears old faded clothing, it means you haven’t traveled enough.
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amother
Cyclamen
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:12 pm
| amother Nasturtium wrote: | There are all kinds of people in the U.S. and in Israel. That’s the bottom line.
I always thought Israelis were simpler until a family wedding a few years ago. My family isn’t well to do and no one has rten thousand dollar wigs or designer clothes. There was a group from the other side from Israel. Their wigs, their gowns, their jewelry, were all magnificent. We looked like country bumpkins next to them. From a mile away you could tell who belonged to that Israeli side of the family. You could tel they thought highly of themselves too.
I’ve since come across other Israelis of that sort. They have a different mentality than the wealthy Americans I know too. You get the feeling they know their wealth puts them in a different category. Americans are more democratic and won’t necessarily think they’re better people because they can afford designer clothes.
It might just be an Israeli attitude type of thing, because some of the very simple have nots from israel also come across as knowing they’re a superior life form compared to their clueless American fellow Jews.
There are all kinds of people everywhere. If you think everyone in America enjoys a high standard of living or everyone in Israel wears old faded clothing, it means you haven’t traveled enough. |
Have you been to wedding gemachs in Israel? We had a wedding a couple of months ago, we all got stunning stylish matching gowns that came in a month or 2 before the wedding some still had labels on as they hadn't been worn. We paid 100 Nis each. Our girls all wore matching gowns that came in 2 days before the wedding (we had chosen others but when we came to fetch them we saw these new ones we liked better than came that day) paid 50 Nis each dress. 75 Nis to have my wig washed and set and DH treated me with a stunning necklace that looked soo expensive for 100 Nis. The little boys suits were between 100-150 Nis and most of them have been wearing it weekly for Shabbos since.
People come from all over Israel for this Gemach, they are constantly changing and bringing in new stylish gowns. It's a huge chessed.
Yes there are some who pay 400nis to have a dress sewn and kept by the seamstress and she rents it or they buy and I often see adverts for reselling or renting. But it doesn't mean everyone does.
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amother
OP
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:17 pm
| amother Cyclamen wrote: | Have you been to wedding gemachs in Israel? We had a wedding a couple of months ago, we all got stunning stylish matching gowns that came in a month or 2 before the wedding some still had labels on as they hadn't been worn. We paid 100 Nis each. Our girls all wore matching gowns that came in 2 days before the wedding (we had chosen others but when we came to fetch them we saw these new ones we liked better than came that day) paid 50 Nis each dress. 75 Nis to have my wig washed and set and DH treated me with a stunning necklace that looked soo expensive for 100 Nis. The little boys suits were between 100-150 Nis and most of them have been wearing it weekly for Shabbos since.
People come from all over Israel for this Gemach, they are constantly changing and bringing in new stylish gowns. It's a huge chessed.
Yes there are some who pay 400nis to have a dress sewn and kept by the seamstress and she rents it or they buy and I often see adverts for reselling or renting. But it doesn't mean everyone does. |
Where is this gemach?
The gemachs I've Been to in yerushalyim are nothing like you're describing
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farm
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 8:47 pm
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Some of the comparisons don’t make sense because of the different price scales between the countries. A middle class American family can have 2 cars for less money than the Israeli family with 1 car. A middle class American family can have a house with 5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, and a nice yard for less money than the Israeli family with an apartment in Bnei Brak. Deciding America is steeped in consumerism more than other countries based on these types of standards are inaccurate.
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amother
Oleander
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Wed, Mar 27 2024, 11:43 pm
ארץ זבת חלב ודבש
There is no doubt that Hashem's promise is seen daily: Israel is the land of Milk and Honey. (America is referred to as the land of Gold and Money) Here is the difference: in Israel citizens value inner peace and time over stuff.
*Israel has the most billionaires per capita in the world.
*in the new UN happiness poll Israel came in at the top 5 of the list (yes even during war).
*The average Israeli (not American who made Aliyah, but those who grew up with Israeli mentality and schooling) with a skill, make about ₪15,000 to 20,000 shekel a month per spouse. About $5,000 a month per spouse. Most of them live in a building not private home. There housing costs and taxes are low.
*it's standard for people (even with large families) to go to each other for shabbos, (they make space, they can sleep on mattress on the dining room floor) but the go away often so they have breaks/vacations at no cost. Many go to local hotels with extended family at off season it low.
Look around on the roads and parking lots you'll see the most luxury cars owned by regular working people with good jobs. Mercedes, BMW and Cadillac are seen regularly of course Tesle
is popular. There are plenty of Range Rovers, Jaguars, Porsche, Maserati, Mustang and more.
Yerushalyim is the capital of the world everyone wants to own a house here. (In a small way like Manhatten is in New York) the prices are high accordingly. Even the cheapest neighborhoods are more expensive than and place outside of Yerushalyim.
Israeli like nice things but they value family and peace of mind much more than stuff.
Go into Yaffi wigs the most beautiful wigs with prices accordingly, yet, it's always full. It looks like her wigs are free with the amount of Israeli women there at any given time. But Jewelry store are not. There are plenty boutique clothing stores but they are much lower priced than America.
Israelis love to party, most cook or barbecue rather than going to high cost restaurants or order from private home chefs. (A very lucrative business for great cooks and bakers).
Right after Purim supermarkets are unpacking peseach foods already. (Food prices remain the same as all year long, as price gouging rules are strictly in effect) The week before Yom tov, homes are all done, hotels are full familes spending time together and coming home for bedikas chometz all rested for seder, it's great for inner peace and shalom bayis, much better than a luxury summer vacation I can go on forever.. you get the point.
Those in Kollel or low income employees or those visiting American yearly are a different category. Many follow the American mentality of living.
Bus transportation in Israel is very advanced and amazing with fast bus lanes, fast trains that there is no need for a car, it's a want not a need.
Living in Yerushalyim or American neighborhood is more expensive as they tend to live together so everyone wants the same area, while Israelis move all around the country where new neighborhoods are built and housing is lower. There are so many options. Just like people travel to Manhattan daily for work so too many travel by public transportation to Yerushalyim for work, school, Kollel etc.
Start throwing the tomatoes.
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amother
Bottlebrush
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 12:03 am
| amother Hibiscus wrote: | I've lived in both places. What I can say is this
1. There is a growing class of Israelis that are very into materialism. They throw fancy simchas, have fancy wigs, take luxury European vacations and have stunning apartments. It's all smaller than in America but the salaries are also about half of what they are in America, so it all evens out. MANY Israelis live in the minus and somehow are still making fancy shabbos meals every week. Maybe there isn't a pressure, idk, but in my experience there is definitely a growing materialism in Israel that wasn't there before. All of the major American Jewish clothing stores have come to Israel, and trust me when you walk in you hear plenty of hebrew!!! So stop kidding yourself that in Israel it's all so pashut and simple. Bc it's not!
I knew someone with a boy in a very popular school in rbs who said she had to make this boy a bar mitzvah party with a dj bc that's what all his friends were doing. My old neighbor had cousins in Jlem and she said the wedding she went to was so over the top she couldn't believe her eyes.
Or my personal favorite, people in neighborhoods pushing fancy strollers, buying fancy clothes, etc. But they are also taking tzedaka for "needy families in EY"
2. At the same time, the Israeli materialism will never reach the level of the in town materialism but that makes sense, considering salaries and cultural differences.
Go to bnai brak, jlem, rbs, rananana, herziliya and Northern tel aviv...you see plenty of materialism there charedi, DL and chiloni
It will never be America BUT to deny it doesn't exist isn't true! |
This is exactly my experience. It's there but all to scale. The US is physically a much bigger country therefore homes, vehicles etc are all going to be bigger as well. But when scaled down for size , salary etc, Israeli materialism is alive and well and has become so much more apparentin the last ten years or so.
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amother
Junglegreen
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 12:41 am
Because the Israeli financial system is different, please also spend differently here.
Example 1 - I pay 600 nis in tuition monthly for 3 dc that will go to school through July. They will only go to camp for one month and then have free time with friends. This money is available for other things.
Example 2 - The pension plans here mean there is very little savings going into retirement for post tax take home salaries.
Example 3 - You don’t need two cars so you live with less until you can buy one rather than borrow money with interest.
Example 4 - Prices do not go up like crazy for pesach. Ive made pesach for under 1200 nis so far for a young family of 5.
As a result, after paying for basics, people often will do some splurging as long as they even have a little extra.
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amother
Kiwi
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 1:31 am
| amother White wrote: | Just check out the new "How much would you spend on" thread.
Only in America is there such extravagance. Not saying it's a bad thing but in Israel, most people could not spend those numbers on those kind of things. |
I was just going to post this.
Living in Israel, the numbers on that thread are absolutely mind boggling, to the point where I didn't post because I felt people wouldn't relate.
Obviously every area is different but on the whole, in the more Israeli neighborhoods, materialism is lower. Yes, there is an up and coming chevra who "live the life" but it's not standard at all. What I read here about people's standards has my eyes popping out of my head.
I have a bunch of teenage girls - never heard of designer labels, never dreamt of spending more than 250 shekel ($70) on a coat or shoes, meat and salmon are for yomtov, the types of stationery people discuss here are unfathomable, the number of outfits people own, the expectations, even the idea of camp being a "must" and the amount of clothes people are buying just for camp....
When I go into the American neighborhoods in central Jerusalem, it feels foreign to me. That type of materialism is coming straight from America.
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amother
Ruby
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 3:01 am
I wrote this on one of the other threads but I will note it here as well.
I live in an American neighborhood in Yerushalayim. where everyone is living on their parent's credit card for a few years before moving back. But I've been here close to 25 years now and I'm old and grumpy and don't care about trends and keeping up.
My daughter was born here and is completely Israeli. Her husband is Israeli. Her friends are Israeli. The standards are ridiculous. More ridiculous than I see in my own neighborhood. These are young Israeli couples so I don't think there's wealth - I think they feel a need to keep up with their friends' statuses and Instagram accounts and it just keeps getting more ridiculous. (I noted in the other thread the Purim photoshoots. What?!)
It exists here in certain places and among certain groups, just like there. And just like there, it doesn't exist in other areas or among other groups.
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mamalooo
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 3:04 am
I find that a big difference between Israel and the Usa many times is the order of peoples ideals. In Israel being wealthy is not a top priority. ppl are not willing to work like a dog and have no life in order to make money. Israelis work in order to make money to cover expenses.
In the Usa ppl will work in order to cover extras, I find it funny how Americans will work so hard to be able to afford vacation instead of working less and having more hours at home with family...
just to prove my point in Israel you can very casually ask someone how much they make or how much something they own costs and they don't take it personally- the money doesn't make a person. as opposed to Americans it is much more personal it is a part of them
Of course there are always exceptions but this is what I found....
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salt
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 3:06 am
| amother OP wrote: | Where is this gemach?
The gemachs I've Been to in yerushalyim are nothing like you're describing |
I don't know what she is talking about but there is one in Neve yaakov.
100 shekels for adult dress.
40 shekels for girls dress.
No need to clean the dress, you return it the day after the wedding.
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amother
Moccasin
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 4:30 am
| farm wrote: | | Some of the comparisons don’t make sense because of the different price scales between the countries. A middle class American family can have 2 cars for less money than the Israeli family with 1 car. A middle class American family can have a house with 5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, and a nice yard for less money than the Israeli family with an apartment in Bnei Brak. Deciding America is steeped in consumerism more than other countries based on these types of standards are inaccurate. |
You mean Jerusalem. Bnei Barak is still inexpensive compared to in town American cities.
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amother
RosePink
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 5:25 am
I don't know.
I live in 'anglo' RBS and work in Hi-tech. Husband works too. We spend more then the average Israeli but the conversations I have with my American siblings still boggle my mind.
I spend on camps(in Israel) and clothing and nice food but I drive super simple car and don't bother with brand name just for the sake of brand names. if I decide to cut back on any of the things I spend on right now nobody will bat and eye.
Even if I lived in a place in the US where there was no peer pressure, I would still have to make more money then I do now just to cover healthcare and tuition and sleepaway camps.
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amother
Hibiscus
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 7:28 am
| mamalooo wrote: | I find that a big difference between Israel and the Usa many times is the order of peoples ideals. In Israel being wealthy is not a top priority. ppl are not willing to work like a dog and have no life in order to make money. Israelis work in order to make money to cover expenses.
In the Usa ppl will work in order to cover extras, I find it funny how Americans will work so hard to be able to afford vacation instead of working less and having more hours at home with family...
just to prove my point in Israel you can very casually ask someone how much they make or how much something they own costs and they don't take it personally- the money doesn't make a person. as opposed to Americans it is much more personal it is a part of them
Of course there are always exceptions but this is what I found.... |
I don't think you have spent a lot of time with real Israelis. Maybe some the religious sector is like this but many Israelis are very into $$$. Why do you think so many Israelis (including religious) come to the US? Wealth means different things in Israel, but to argue people don't really care about it is silly. Sure, the kollel crowds and shtachim crowds don't. Have you ever been to Ramot Aviv mall in TA? Neighborhoods in Herzliyah? Netanya? All the stores in Bnai Brak? Shamgar?
I promise many Israelis care about wealth!
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amother
Oleander
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 7:40 am
| mamalooo wrote: | I find that a big difference between Israel and the Usa many times is the order of peoples ideals. In Israel being wealthy is not a top priority. ppl are not willing to work like a dog and have no life in order to make money. Israelis work in order to make money to cover expenses.
In the Usa ppl will work in order to cover extras, I find it funny how Americans will work so hard to be able to afford vacation instead of working less and having more hours at home with family...
just to prove my point in Israel you can very casually ask someone how much they make or how much something they own costs and they don't take it personally- the money doesn't make a person. as opposed to Americans it is much more personal it is a part of them
Of course there are always exceptions but this is what I found.... |
100% my findings too! Spot on!
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amother
Oleander
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Thu, Mar 28 2024, 7:50 am
| amother Hibiscus wrote: | I don't think you have spent a lot of time with real Israelis. Maybe some the religious sector is like this but many Israelis are very into $$$. Why do you think so many Israelis (including religious) come to the US? Wealth means different things in Israel, but to argue people don't really care about it is silly. Sure, the kollel crowds and shtachim crowds don't. Have you ever been to Ramot Aviv mall in TA? Neighborhoods in Herzliyah? Netanya? All the stores in Bnai Brak? Shamgar?
I promise many Israelis care about wealth! |
Those who want mainly material life move to America.
We had a rare opportunity to attend an event at at stunning beachfront penthouse in Tel Aviv (as volunteers for an organization) where should a billionaire live, of course they live well. Hashem gave them money bh and they give charity. Yes, there are people who have and live comfortably BUT as she said, it's not a priority. They are so humble and welcoming as one big Jewish happy family.
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