Help from organizations for middle class

amother

White

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 11:59 am

notshanarishona wrote:

Yes, I know “poor” kollel families (who are being supported, getting government benefits, living on high standards) and who get help from so many different tzedakos before Pesach they make the rich look poor. I don’t know exactly amount of the coupons given out but it’s definitely excessive for some and there is definitely double or triple dipping with some people getting help from numerous organizations.

I do think having a centralized computer system so people cant double dip before others get help might be helpful.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:09 pm

To repeat what was mentioned on the other thread, posters have mistaken assumptions. Everyone gets it. Less needy kollel/chinuch families are offered help before more needy working families. It has nothing to do with need per se. Everyone recognizes that some working families can be poorer than kollel/ chinuch families.

Those sponsoring kollel/chinuch families do so because they want a share of the zechus in their learning and Torah teaching. That Yissaschar/Zevulon self interest motivates them to donate their hard earned money to subsidize chinuch/kollel families. It’s an investment, and an eternal one at that.

Sure poor working families are a good tzedaka cause, as are special needs kids, chai lifeline, and others. But comparing poor working families to kollel/ chinuch families based strictly on need and complaining about how donors choose to share their money, demanding to be prioritized over kollel/chinuch due to need is presumptuous and is comparing apples to oranges

Aurora

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:36 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Frankly, this davka makes me want to avoid considering funding kollel/chinuch families as tzedaka. If they don't need the money so much, and others do, then it's no longer tzedaka, but should be considered more like a business expense.

I find this condescending attitude towards working poor, special needs, and chai lifeline naive at best.

I thought learning Torah was supposed to make you care more about others. I don't see that attitude here.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:43 pm

Aurora wrote:

I agree with you. For those who don’t see the value in yissaschar/zevulan and supporting Torah, they should absolutely only donate tzedaka funds to those helping out poor working families. Let those kollel guys get a job!

For those who recognize the added value of supporting Torah families who are needy (no one is talking about supplying wealthy Torah families) even if they aren’t the lowest on the totem pole, let them continue to reap the eternal zechusim they are getting.

Aurora

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:47 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

If they are donating in hopes of getting a return back, then it's not tzedaka anymore. And to take it as tzedaka when you are treating it like a business seems funny to me.

I do appreciate the partnership, but a partnership isn't tzedaka. Leave the tzedaka funds for the needy, and offer this as a business model instead.

amother

Aubergine

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 12:57 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

Yeah I dont believe that the donors know what theyre giving to.
Try collecting for a case of wine for kollel families who are going to their parents for Yom Tov.
Or shabbos outfits for kollel families that the grandparents already bought each child 2 outfits and this is the third.
I doubt donors would be interested in giving.

They are interested in giving a case of wine to kollel families (who are home for Yom Tov) and shabbos outfits (to kollel families who arent getting free clothing).

My problem is when those who are not needy are given "because theyre kollel" assuming that the donors mean them also.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 1:05 pm

Aurora wrote:

It is not mutually exclusive.
The Chafetz Chaim in Ahavas Chessed and numerous other authorities write that the most worthy form of Tzedaka is that which support Torah scholars.

This means that (barring a question of literal starvation or actual lack of clothing to the point of being naked , something that existed in Europe but is no longer relevant) providing tzedaka to a needy Torah scholar is considered a higher level than an even more needy non Torah scholar.

One is getting the benefit of tzedaka as well as the zechus of their learning. It is not a zero sum game.

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 1:09 pm

amother Aubergine wrote:

It really depends on the context and on the program. The kollel family being supported in style heading to the exotic pesach hotel does not belong taking a case of wine.

Yet organizations are well aware that young kollel families rarely make their own pesach so if they are included in a wine distribution and are indeed needy it is understood that it is intended for their legitimate needs despite not making their own Seder.

Aurora

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:03 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

I keep reading posts here that seem to say that the standard of living for these scholars is very far from needy. In which case, I don't understand how the money here is any kind of tzedaka that supports Torah scholars - what is being provided is clearly things that are wanted, not needed.

And I keep seeing this attitude towards those who are not in kollel/chinuch, that seems to imply that they are worth less.

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:09 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

The question is, why are families that aren't making yom tov, even part of the distribution? Why are they getting any cases of food and goods at all, if they're not making yom tov, when there are people that are struggling to make yom tov but are denied help?
Being in kollel/chinuch, should not automatically make one eligible to receive help. There should be a criteria & forms to fill out. For everyone. Not just kollel/chinuch.

amother

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:11 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

A torah scholar, doesn't only mean a kollel or chinuch guy!! (And being in kollel, doesn't automatically make one a torah scholar.) A working man can also be a torah scholar & have MORE mesiras nefesh for torah, then kollel guys.

Bleemee

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:25 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

What qualifies as tzedaka?

amother

Cadetblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:39 pm

Aurora wrote:

I’m not sure where this is coming from. Who are these mythical comfortable middle class kollel families who are living it up and raking in programs and yom tov freebies from donors to boot?

The average kollel and chinuch family is definitely in the needy category. Other than the few who are doing the PHD kollel lifestyle (Papa Has Dough) , the average kollel family struggles to pay bills, make simchas, cover therapies, and come up with tuitions. They don’t have retirement funds, and even simple chasunahs are completely beyond their means. They aren’t eating out every other week and living the comfortable life. Even a kollel wife with a good paying job is rarely bringing in enough to afford the basics of frum living.

The beef people have is that there are working people who are even MORE needy. They are complaining that those who are donating funds to help kollel families ought to donate to them instead. I understand their frustration but the sense of entitlement to dictate where donors should decide to allocate their funds is misplaced.

If anything the issue I see in Lakewood is that some people, including the working poor, are adept at gaming the system. They hustle to get from every possible resource; Ahavas Chessed and Tomchei and store leftovers and camp fund, and the local shul fund and solicit individual good hearted people as well as relatives while negotiating down tuitions to close to zero. They live far more comfortably than the truly needy who aren’t as aggressive in advocating for themselves.

amother

Chestnut

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:44 pm

Here's another option for Williamsburg residents. I think there's a different number to call for other towns, not sure though.

Thank you for contacting Zeh Vzeh Nehene 2024 Williamsburg

Zeh Vzeh was created to assist the working class by providing store
coupons during seasons when expenses are extraordinary. Especially now
when dealing with pandemic and inflation crisis affecting a lot of
business. These coupons are redeemable at a big variety of stores,
providing discounts and savings to customers.
‎
Please note, the coupons we currently have are for Williamsburg stores only.

“please be mindful of the store rules: COUPNS MUST BE PRINTED, And can
not be shown on a phone.”

To qualify, please provide the following:
Your name, address, phone number and email address for updates
Employer’s business name, contact name and phone number

Upon receipt, we will issue the coupons with your account number to
your email address. Please allow 24-48 hours to receive your coupons.

The Zeh Vzeh Team

Do you know someone who can benefit? Let him know to reach out to us!

-----------------------------------

FAQ

Q: Who is the the Zeh vzeh team?

A: The Zeh Vzeh team is a group of yingeliet who realized that with all the
organizations out there, the biggest part of Klal Yisroel- our working
class people living on their hard earned money, is missing out. Zeh
V'zeh does not profit from any of this; our expenses are covered by
sponsors.

Q: Is Zeh Vzeh funded by charity?

A: No, and therefore you should feel comfortable using it. Look at its
name ‘Zeh Vzeh Nehene’ the vendors are willing to give the discount so
they can get more customers.

Q: If I earn nicely and make ends meet, can I take advantage of the
discounts?

A: At this time this was created for the people to whom these
discounts will help
ease their burden, not just for leisure. That is what most store owners
agreed to, so we ask everyone to comply.

Q: Will my information be shared with anyone?

A: NO, the stores will only get an account number.

Q: Is there any way I can help?

A: Shop at these stores who show support to the working class in our
community. Ideas and suggestions are welcome.

Q: Is there anyone benefitting from this program?

A: Yes, you and hopefully the stores. Zeh Vzeh is not for profit.
‎

Thanks for taking part in the Zeh Vzeh Nehene Program. Enjoy and save!

A Freilichen Yom Tov,

The Zeh Vzeh Team
718-569-7818

amother

DarkOrange

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:52 pm

amother Cadetblue wrote:

But is it tzeddakah if they don't need it?
Should we have dozens of programs for kollel chinuch families and not enough for working poor or struggling middle class?

Should those programs for chinuch/kollel make it clear that not all are "needy"? Because many programs make it sound like they are the only thing stopping these families from eating just bread and water. Hair accessories aren't usually listed as a service provided.

Aurora

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 2:57 pm

amother DarkOrange wrote:

This is my question too.

amother

Coral

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 6:12 pm

amother Lemon wrote:

Do you feel comfortable using them? We get the same as you. We are the poor middle class. Wish I was eligible for food stamps we shouldn't have to take. Succos -pesach I lived on just the card. Plue hand me downs Plus Ruby shoes. Summer I can't manage without buying. My hand me down family clothing are not in the best condition.I can't handle going to serendipity. ISo I buy clothing usually up to $7 for boy. Mostly primark. And girls preteens I buy a minimum in tottini because they need the length. Is this not frugal enough to use the card? Is this taking advantage? I extra feel bad about the list of stores. My kids feel good going to the store and choosing what they want and I feel bad because some are very expensive. I feel even the store owners judging me. My son. Wants a new suit and he wants to pick it out. He gets 1 suit jacket plus a few pairs if pants a year using the card. But maybe we should be getting everything second hand or on the clearance rack. Am I spending wisely enough on it. To get my kids a weekday clothing from tottini not from their backroom? Am I supposed to get the shabbos robe or dress from tottini because it comes out the cheapest. In addition last season I bought from ruby because the price difference is so big. I rather use the card for basics then buy the shoes without the card. Just adding to my basic budget it's a huge help.

Why can’t you handle going to serendipity? They have racks of new stuff, I don’t go through the second hand things.
I find it a fun store