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-> In the News
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happyone
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 Tue, Sep 02 2008, 6:44 am
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Keeping the child and marrying shows taking responsibility for your actions. I think in this situation it's the best scenario. Her other options would be aborting or giving up the child for adoption. What are you teaching the country? pro abortion? or go ahead, have unprotected sxx and just give the child up in order to move on in life? I think she's doing the best thing under the circumstances and setting an example for teenagers. Let teens know there are consequences to their actions. She also does have an unbelievably supportive family which helps you know.
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ora_43
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 6:54 am
| SuperMama wrote: | | It's sad, but in todays world the non jews need their kids on birth control and it's irresponsible that the mother didn't have her daughter on it in my opinion. |
Where are you getting your information about non jews that you think all of them need to be on birth control??? That's just ridiculous. Despite what you might see on TV, or what others tell you is on TV, many teens are not s-xually active.
To say a parent should force their child to go on birth control is ludicrous. Even if it didn't send the wrong message, even if it wouldn't create an atmosphere of complete distrust between child and parent, birth control only protects against pregnancy, which is far from the worst thing one can get from unprotected s-x.
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Seraph
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 7:21 am
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maybe not all non jewish teens are s-xually active, but I am pretty sure the avg age people lose their virginity nowadays is 12 for a girl and 13 for a boy, if not younger...
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Ruchel
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 8:02 am
| Seraph wrote: | | maybe not all non jewish teens are s-xually active, but I am pretty sure the avg age people lose their virginity nowadays is 12 for a girl and 13 for a boy, if not younger... |
omg no, this is maybe among the black population among the poorest and in bad areas, no way an average!
The average varies by country, race, social class, education level, etc, according to stats apparently in France it has been 30 years that the average age is 17.6 for girls and 17.2 for boys. I suppose that 30 years ago there were more around 17 and more above 17, and today, more under 17 because of "problem youth", but that the average stays the same because there are less people waiting for marriage (= older).
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ora_43
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 8:38 am
| Seraph wrote: | | maybe not all non jewish teens are s-xually active, but I am pretty sure the avg age people lose their virginity nowadays is 12 for a girl and 13 for a boy, if not younger... |
The median age is 17 for a girl and 16 for a boy in the United States, according to the Guttmacher Institute. I haven't seen data indicating that the average age is 12 or 13 in any country.
Median age is a more accurate indicator of s-xual activity than average age in this case. Averages are thrown off by the occasional 45-year-old virgin or nun, medians are not.
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costanza
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 10:12 am
Many of you are critical of Sarah Palin for the actions of her daughter. Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice. The actions of the child are not the fault, necessarily, of the parent. Just read some of the threads about frum kids who go off the derech and you'll see that the parents of those kids are adamant that they are not responsible. A 17 year old has a brain of her own. It's not something that should be used against the mother.
And comments were made that these Palin kids are an integral part of the campaign. I disagree. They were introduced to the public as was Sarah Palin. An introduction to show their existence does not mean they are fair game.
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chaylizi
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 10:24 am
| chavamom wrote: | My favorite new item of the day? | Quote: | | Rove Calls Biden Blowhard Doofus | . I wish I was making it up. |
Well we all knew that Rove was totally normal before this, right? (sarcastic)
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chavamom
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 10:27 am
| micfri wrote: | | Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice. |
Look, it's possible. But her public stance is she doesn't believe in it and supports an "abstinence only" approach. It's more the irony of her embracing a policy that has been shown not to work.....and it didn't work in her own family.
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HindaRochel
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 11:00 am
| chavamom wrote: | | micfri wrote: | | Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice. |
Look, it's possible. But her public stance is she doesn't believe in it and supports an "abstinence only" approach. It's more the irony of her embracing a policy that has been shown not to work.....and it didn't work in her own family. |
Rarely do things work perfectly.
Which is why as Orthodox Jews we don't tell our children that at least if they are going to eat treif make sure to get tested for allergies to shell fish.
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Clarissa
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 11:09 am
| HindaRochel wrote: | | chavamom wrote: | | micfri wrote: | | Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice. |
Look, it's possible. But her public stance is she doesn't believe in it and supports an "abstinence only" approach. It's more the irony of her embracing a policy that has been shown not to work.....and it didn't work in her own family. |
Rarely do things work perfectly.
Which is why as Orthodox Jews we don't tell our children that at least if they are going to eat treif make sure to get tested for allergies to shell fish. | Not the same thing. The percentage of people with dangerous allergies to shellfish is much smaller than the percentage of young women who will conceive out of wedlock if they repeatedly have intercourse without birth control. Also, you have one reaction to shellfish and you usually survive, even with an allergy. Get pregnant and that reaction will last a lifetime.
As I've said many times, I'm not all that interested in the families or personal lives of politicians, except for where hypocrisy rears its ugly head. I don't care about whose teenage girl got pregnant, or who had an affair or who had an addiction they overcame. These things happen in many families. My only interest is in the hypocrites -- the senator who rails against homosexuality but plays toe-games in an airport bathroom, the congressman who blasts a president for extramarital nookie but who had a girlfriend on the side himself, the governor who speaks out repeatedly against s*x education (because it promotes premarital s*x) but whose daughter got pregnant and, it turns out, might have gotten pregnant before marriage, herself. That said, I still don't think this affects my feelings about Palin so strongly one way or another. As a Democrat, I've always complained about the way the Republicans are so obsessed the the personal lives of Democratic candidates, so I don't want to start doing that myself all the time.
Anyway, I don't think anyone is condemning the daughter as much as asking questions about the mother. We all know that there are certain politicians who pander to the right-wing Christian community but don't walk the walk after they talk the talk, so there's a natural response and eye-brow raising that goes on. But in the end, the issue about her is whether she can and should be president if something happens to McCain, and whether we should be concerned about the VP nominees so much, anyway, or turn our attention back to the presidential candidates.
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Chani
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 11:09 am
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I think her position may be more nuanced... it is possible to take an "abstinence only" stance regarding what should be taught in the schools but still believe that parents should make the decision individually whether or not to discuss BC with their teenager. It's basically just saying that it isn't the place of the school to give that information over to the child - it's something that falls within the parental sphere of control.
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Clarissa
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 11:10 am
| Chani wrote: | | I think her position may be more nuanced... it is possible to take an "abstinence only" stance regarding what should be taught in the schools but still believe that parents should make the decision individually whether or not to discuss BC with their teenager. It's basically just saying that it isn't the place of the school to give that information over to the child - it's something that falls within the parental sphere of control. | Good point.
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Clarissa
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 1:11 pm
The saddest part of the story is that the boyfriend/fiance/father-to-be sounds like a moron. Check out what he said on MySpace:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09.....5.htm
In case anybody is too lazy to read the whole thing, here's Mr. Charm himself. Don't read if you can't handle implied bad language:
On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.
"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."
"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] a$$," he added.
He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids."
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Raisin
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 1:19 pm
| Quote: | | but whose daughter got pregnant and, it turns out, might have gotten pregnant before marriage |
It seems she was 24 at the time. Shes promoting these programs in high schools, not among college graduates.
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btMOMtoFFBs
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 1:44 pm
| Clarissa wrote: | On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.
"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."
"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] a$$," he added.
He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids." |
Wow Clarissa, if that's for real, then I reiterate that it's not fair to the baby to be raised by a CHILD like that. Not fair to Bristol to be married to a person like that and have to depend and rely on him and build a home with him.
This child deserves adult, responsible parents. I know the Palins are being supportive, but they won't be the one's raising this child.
Such a tough position she got herself into. I feel badly for her.
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HindaRochel
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:01 pm
| Clarissa wrote: | | HindaRochel wrote: | | chavamom wrote: | | micfri wrote: | | Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice. |
Look, it's possible. But her public stance is she doesn't believe in it and supports an "abstinence only" approach. It's more the irony of her embracing a policy that has been shown not to work.....and it didn't work in her own family. |
Rarely do things work perfectly.
Which is why as Orthodox Jews we don't tell our children that at least if they are going to eat treif make sure to get tested for allergies to shell fish. | Not the same thing. The percentage of people with dangerous allergies to shellfish is much smaller than the percentage of young women who will conceive out of wedlock if they repeatedly have intercourse without birth control. Also, you have one reaction to shellfish and you usually survive, even with an allergy. Get pregnant and that reaction will last a lifetime.
As I've said many times, I'm not all that interested in the families or personal lives of politicians, except for where hypocrisy rears its ugly head. I don't care about whose teenage girl got pregnant, or who had an affair or who had an addiction they overcame. These things happen in many families. My only interest is in the hypocrites -- the senator who rails against homosexuality but plays toe-games in an airport bathroom, the congressman who blasts a president for extramarital nookie but who had a girlfriend on the side himself, the governor who speaks out repeatedly against s*x education (because it promotes premarital s*x) but whose daughter got pregnant and, it turns out, might have gotten pregnant before marriage, herself. That said, I still don't think this affects my feelings about Palin so strongly one way or another. As a Democrat, I've always complained about the way the Republicans are so obsessed the the personal lives of Democratic candidates, so I don't want to start doing that myself all the time.
Anyway, I don't think anyone is condemning the daughter as much as asking questions about the mother. We all know that there are certain politicians who pander to the right-wing Christian community but don't walk the walk after they talk the talk, so there's a natural response and eye-brow raising that goes on. But in the end, the issue about her is whether she can and should be president if something happens to McCain, and whether we should be concerned about the VP nominees so much, anyway, or turn our attention back to the presidential candidates. |
The analogy wasn't about numbers (and reacting to shell fish is a deadly thing so while becoming pregnant and giving birth is lifetime if you keep the child, allergies to shell fish can be ending of life; as my brother found out. He did survive, but just barely)
Railing against premarital s-x if one has had it isn't hypocritical it is learning from past error. One's daughter becoming pregnant is also not hypocritical; it is part of life. We don't dis Moshe Rabbieneu because his children didn't rise to power, we honor David HaMelech, but his children, some of them rebelled.
Children are not robots; we can not program them to behave in X or Y manner.
G-d willing the Moshiach will come, but should McCain win and then die in office, Palin would make a better President imho than Obama. So whether it is McCain against Obama or Palin against Obama, Obama loses.
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Seraph
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:07 pm
| Clarissa wrote: | The saddest part of the story is that the boyfriend/fiance/father-to-be sounds like a moron. Check out what he said on MySpace:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09.....5.htm
In case anybody is too lazy to read the whole thing, here's Mr. Charm himself. Don't read if you can't handle implied bad language:
On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.
"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."
"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] a$$," he added.
He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids." |
ok, so he sounds like a teenager, not neccesarily immature. you have to realize that cussing in some populations isnt veiwed as evil, but just a way of talking. he enjoys sports and other physical fitness stuff, so what? how does that make him a terrible person and unfit father? maybe not the type of guy I'd marry, but doesnt make someone a terrible choice for fatherhood.
anyhow, who knows how long ago that was written? I have a myspace page, and I havent looked at it in 2 years... and myspace isnt written for the world to see, he wrote it for his freinds and buddies to see, and wasnt planning on the world seeing it or I'm sure he would have written more eloquently. I'm sure when you're talking with your friends you would talk differnetly than if u were on national tv addressing the nation.
grow up.
first we're analyzing palin mom's pregnancy and if she made a huge deception, now we're focusing on the daughter's sx life and choice of boyfriend, and now we're even analyzing his myspace page. remind me how this has ANYTHING to do with the election?
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HindaRochel
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:10 pm
| Seraph wrote: | | Clarissa wrote: | The saddest part of the story is that the boyfriend/fiance/father-to-be sounds like a moron. Check out what he said on MySpace:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/09.....5.htm
In case anybody is too lazy to read the whole thing, here's Mr. Charm himself. Don't read if you can't handle implied bad language:
On his MySpace page, Johnston boasts, "I'm a f - - -in' redneck" who likes to snowboard and ride dirt bikes.
"But I live to play hockey. I like to go camping and hang out with the boys, do some fishing, shoot some s- - - and just f - - -in' chillin' I guess."
"Ya f - - - with me I'll kick [your] a$$," he added.
He also claims to be "in a relationship," but states, "I don't want kids." |
ok, so he sounds like a teenager, not neccesarily immature. you have to realize that cussing in some populations isnt veiwed as evil, but just a way of talking. he enjoys sports and other physical fitness stuff, so what? how does that make him a terrible person and unfit father? maybe not the type of guy I'd marry, but doesnt make someone a terrible choice for fatherhood.
anyhow, who knows how long ago that was written? I have a myspace page, and I havent looked at it in 2 years... and myspace isnt written for the world to see, he wrote it for his freinds and buddies to see, and wasnt planning on the world seeing it or I'm sure he would have written more eloquently. I'm sure when you're talking with your friends you would talk differnetly than if u were on national tv addressing the nation.
grow up.
first we're analyzing palin mom's pregnancy and if she made a huge deception, now we're focusing on the daughter's sx life and choice of boyfriend, and now we're even analyzing his myspace page. remind me how this has ANYTHING to do with the election? |
And a lot of guys aren't going to have kids; till their wives or girlfriends get pregnant...then they find they like the idea. He has time to get a bit older and they aren't rushing them into marriage; or they'd be married already.
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Clarissa
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:13 pm
Seraph, before I "grow up," I thought it was funny. I don't think families have anything to do with the election. I just think this guy is embarrassingly immature. Some of my friends' kids have MySpace pages, and believe me, the teenagers don't post stupid, vulgar tripe like that. I cursed plenty in my youth but was able to separate my public self from my private self. I was telling my husband about it -- it should serve as a cautionary tale to teens that nothing you post on the internet ever really goes away, and someday you'll be an adult, out in the working world, or even well-known.
I believe if you peruse the posts about Palin, in EVERY one of my posts I say that it doesn't matter to me, who their children are, what their marriages are like, etc. So you're preaching to the converted, Seraph.
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Clarissa
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Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:16 pm
| HindaRochel wrote: | | And a lot of guys aren't going to have kids; till their wives or girlfriends get pregnant...then they find they like the idea. He has time to get a bit older and they aren't rushing them into marriage; or they'd be married already. | I didn't even intend to include that line about wanting kids -- after all, he's only 17! Too young to be wanting kids, and too young to be having them. I think it would be preferable for the grandparents to raise the baby, but I guess that's an individual decision. Most marriages where the kids get married because they have to don't work out so well. There was a book that was hugely popular in my youth called Mr. and Mr. Bo Jo Jones, about teens who got married that way. I loved it. At any rate, I can't imagine having done that so young. I was barely able to take care of houseplants.
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